This Is It . . . Maybe, Says Johnny Carson : Television: ‘The Tonight Show’ host signs on for one more year, but says ‘nothing lasts forever.’

Johnny Carson has signed with NBC’s “Tonight” show for another year, but he says it may be his last hurrah after an extraordinary three decades as the king of late-night television.

The new contract, announced Monday by NBC, takes Carson through September of 1992, completing 30 years of his triumphant reign on the show that he took over on Oct. 2, 1962.

“I think I would be hard put to go beyond 30 years. I can’t imagine going any further than that,” Carson told The Times during a one-hour interview at his home in Malibu.

Reminded that he kept going after considering retirement on his 25th anniversary on “Tonight,” Carson said:

“You want a definite on this, don’t you? I can’t give you a definite, but I can’t see it happening.

“I don’t really see why I would even entertain that idea, because that’s still a year and seven months away. That’s a long haul. And, you know, I’ll be 66 years old this year. I don’t want to sit there when I’m falling over at the desk. But to me, age is all up in the head, and I’m working as well as I’ve ever worked in my life.”

NBC announced Carson’s new contract following published reports that the network wanted to dump him in favor of his permanent substitute host, Jay Leno, who supposedly was getting higher ratings, younger viewers--and would be less expensive in an era of severe TV cost-cutting.

Asked whether anyone at NBC suggested that he step down, Carson said:

“Good lord, no. In fact, I got a call from Bob Wright (president of NBC) the next morning (following the published reports). Brandon Tartikoff (chairman of the NBC Entertainment Group) was on the phone. And naturally, your initial reaction is to say, ‘Is there any truth to this?’

“Well, I’ve known Brandon for a long time, and if NBC wanted to get rid of me, they’ve had many chances. My contract comes up every year. I’m the one who said I don’t know that I want to go on. They said to me every year, ‘We’d like you to continue.’ ”

In the announcement of Carson’s new contract, Tartikoff said: “Upon returning to NBC (after a January car accident that hospitalized him), my No. 1 priority was to convince Johnny Carson, who had informed me he wished to step down as host sometime before the end of 1991, to renew his contract with NBC.”

Carson says that when he told Tartikoff “that I thought I was going to pack it in, I don’t think they were too happy. I’ve done this damn thing for so long. You reach a point sometimes where you think, what’s the right time to do it? I think inevitably you get to that point.

“There are things I would like to do. I have a great interest in astronomy. I’ve done a few things for the Discovery Channel. Those kind of things. That doesn’t preclude you from doing television, but not on a day-to-day basis like the ‘Tonight’ show. You might come back when you feel that you’ve got something that you want to do.”

Like specials?

“Sure.”

Of the reports that NBC wanted to replace him with Leno--who will continue as permanent guest host--Carson says:

“Oh, Jay Leno had nothing to do with it. Jay’s not that kind of a kid. I like Jay. He’s really a bright, funny guy. And he called in a panic. And I said, ‘Jay, I’ve been in this business too long to worry about something like that.’ I said to Brandon, ‘If there’s any truth to this, I’m a grown boy. I’ve been doing this a long time. It makes no difference to me.’

“Anytime that NBC would want to say to me, ‘Hey, it’s been a great run,’ I’m perfectly willing. Nothing lasts forever, for God’s sake. And I would say, ‘Hey, fine, I’ll go do something else.’ Brandon says, ‘Not at all.’ So I don’t think they’re playing games. Networks have not been known for their humanitarian efforts if you’re not doing the job for them.”

After the furor over NBC’s replacement of Jane Pauley on the “Today” show, the network could well find itself in another messy situation if the public believed it was trying to force out Carson, who, with Lucille Ball, is one of the two biggest stars in the history of TV entertainment.

NBC has long relied on “Today” in the morning and “Tonight” in the late hours as dependable bastions of strength, throughout the ups and downs of its prime-time schedule. And in a market of ever-decreasing network strength, any replacement of popular personalities has to be carried out with extreme delicacy to ensure the continued profitability of their shows.

Carson rejects the notion that Leno has better demographics and ratings, saying: “If you go look at the figures, that doesn’t prove out. It doesn’t prove out demographically, so I ignore it. What can you do? I see who shows up in our audience. And I can see the mail I get.”

Following the reports that NBC wanted to replace Carson, a Gallup poll conducted March 14-17 said that 62% of “Tonight” viewers preferred the veteran host to Leno, who was favored by 34%. The gap closed among viewers 18-to-29, with Carson’s 59% topping Leno’s 42%.

Asked about a report that CBS approached Leno not long ago, Carson said: “Well, that happens all the time. I think CBS would be after Attila the Hun if he was available, the way things have been going over there in late-night.”

Carson at times seems torn about putting a final date on his “Tonight” tenure, an understandable reaction for a man who is still youthful in attitude and in splendid physical and mental shape. “I think it’s always silly to say, ‘I will never do this,’ ” he says.

At the same time, he suggests it’s a long shot for him to keep going after 1992: “I don’t think so. I really don’t. I’m not playing games with you. Every show goes off the air. ‘MASH’ goes off. Carol Burnett goes off. The (Ed) Sullivan show goes off. Every show reaches a period at which time I think you go ahead and let somebody else take over.

“You have to, because it determines what’s going to follow. If you never make that decision--well, I don’t like that sense of being in limbo. So I think once you’ve set something and say, ‘That’s it,’ then at least you can plan. If you just leave it open all the time, it gets very discomforting, for me. So I don’t think I’ll go past 30 years. That’s a long run. It’s been a marvelous trip.”

Carson says that he reached his conclusion alone: “Even with my wife Alex, I said, ‘What do you think I should do?’ She said, ‘I’m not going to advise you on this because if I say you should quit and you get unhappy. . . .’ She says, ‘That’s your call.’ And it’s true. You can’t ask anybody else what you should do.”

So barring a surprise change, he would wind up his “Tonight” tour in late 1992?

“That’s right.”

And does that mean that his announcer-sidekick, Ed McMahon, will pack it in, too?

“Ed has said yes. I think it’s just like when Jack Paar (Carson’s predecessor) quit the show. I think that NBC at that time wanted me to keep Hugh Downs (Paar’s sidekick). Not that I have anything against Hugh Downs, but I said, ‘No, I can’t possibly do that. I mean, you can’t have remnants of the Paar dynasty.’ Somebody has to start really fresh, with your own people.

“So I brought in Ed, who had worked with me on the daytime show (‘Who Do You Trust?’). And I was right. Whoever does the show is going to want to start their own show. And they should. It has to take on the personality of the guy who does it.”

Since Carson’s company produces “Tonight,” does he think that a network decision has been made on whether David Letterman or Leno eventually will inherit his coveted job?

“That is not my call,” says Carson. “Once I finish the show, I would have nothing to do with it. I wouldn’t want to stay on and be a producer. I hate that end of it. It’s no fun.”

When he leaves “Tonight,” would he retain a financial interest in the show?

“Nope. Never discussed it. No need to. I’m well paid. Jesus, they pay me enough money. I don’t need any more money.”

And if Carson does leave in 1992 and gets bored and is approached after a while by, say, CBS to move over there and start up a late-night talk show, what would be his reaction?

“Not a chance. Once you step down, you step down. You can’t come back and recapture something a few years later. I would never do that.”

In the end, the astonishing fact of Carson’s three decades on “Tonight” is the way he has turned back challenger after challenger--from Dick Cavett to Pat Sajak--in establishing himself as the king of late-night. Now his principal challenger is Arsenio Hall, and Carson says:

“Naturally, any time there’s a new kid on the block, they want to start something (competitive) in the paper. I’ve always said that I never tried to compete with anybody--I always compete with myself.

“I haven’t seen Arsenio Hall’s show all that much. I think that there’s a lot of energy. But when I’ve seen the show, it reminds me of a high school pep rally. There’s a lot of bells and whistles, but I haven’t seen much performance. I’m not trying to denigrate him. He’s like a cheerleader--a lot of energy.”

Looking back at his three decades on “Tonight,” what is the single thing that stands out most for Carson?

“Always to me it’s the monologue,” he says, “when I’m working well and the monologue is rolling.”

Those often-devastating monologues on current events established him as one of the most influential political commentators on TV. But he says:

“I don’t think I’ve ever been political. I don’t think most people could tell you really whether I’m a Republican or Democrat. I’ve always tried to distance myself (from politicians) because I want to keep an open mind when I go out and do a monologue.

“It’s one thing for a movie star to get identified politically because you’re kind of removed. But when you’re on television every night, you could use that forum, that desk, I think in the wrong way. So I’ve tried to stay clear of that. I picked on (John) Kennedy as much as I picked on Nixon or Agnew or Lyndon Johnson or Reagan, all the way along. And I like it that way.”

When Carson took over “Tonight” in 1962, Kennedy was President and “The Beverly Hillbillies” was TV’s top-rated series. He has, to his surprise, far outdistanced such long-running TV institutions as “Gunsmoke,” “The Red Skelton Show” and the Sullivan series, all of which ran 20 years or more.

“I can remember the first night I was standing backstage,” says Carson. “Somebody said, ‘Well, soon this week will be over and then it’ll be a year and then it’ll be 10 years.’ And we all laughed.”