Riot Aftermath : Were All Deaths in Toll Really Riot-Related? : Investigation: Some authorities believe that several of the 58 slayings listed as part of the violence may have had other causes. Coroner’s office stands by the numbers.

Was the stabbing death of 51-year-old Lucie Marionian in Altadena really riot-related?

Some authorities are raising that question about her death and about the deaths of several others listed in the toll from the Los Angeles rioting, which stood at 58 Tuesday.

On the day of her death, there was no riot-related unrest in Altadena. In fact, Marionian’s slaying is considered an isolated incident.

At 1:55 p.m. Friday, a group of black teen-agers chased Marionian’s 14-year-old son and a friend along New York Drive in the residential neighborhood. To escape, the boys ran to her home and dived under some bushes in the well-tended yard.

When they believed that their pursuers had gone, the young boy went into the house. There, he found his mother lying on the floor in a pool of blood with numerous stab wounds in her chest.

Was this connected to the rioting that tore through Los Angeles after the Rodney G. King verdicts were announced?

“I don’t see that it was,” said Lt. Joe Brown, who investigated the case for the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department.

Of the 58 listed as having died in the riot, most are black and Latino men; only seven are women. Among the 50 male victims, 20 are black; 18 are Latino; nine white, and two Asian. One male corpse was burned so badly that ethnic origin could not be determined, and the gender of another corpse could not be determined.

Of the women, five are black; one is white and one Latino. Marionian is one of the women counted among the riot-related casualties.

While questions are being raised about the death toll attributed to the rioting, the coroner’s office stands by the numbers.

“Our criteria for determining whether or not a death should be included in possible riot-related deaths is: ‘Would this death have occurred had the riot not been in effect?’ ” said Bob Dambacher, spokesman for the Los Angeles County coroner’s office.

“So it doesn’t necessarily mean they have to be dead in the riot zone,” he said. “Did other people take advantage of the riot situation? Would they have died if the riot had not occurred?”

The definition, said Dambacher, is clear-cut. “It’s not confusing to us, but (it is) to police who may not feel it’s a riot-related death.”

Several shooting deaths listed as riot-related are in dispute, including:

Those of an unidentified black man on Thursday at 614 S. Locust Ave. in Compton; Edward Travens, 15, in the San Fernando Valley on Wednesday, and Howard Eugene Martin, 22, on Sunday in Pasadena.

The listing of the deaths of Travens and Martin on the official toll have raised eyebrows because they may be a result of drive-by shootings, police said. For investigators, the thorny question remains: Were those men killed in the usual gang violence or were their deaths related to the rioting?

Many riot-related deaths have not been fully investigated, police acknowledge. More concerned about quelling the violence, detectives cannot be spared to conduct what usually amounts to a four-hour investigation at the scene of a death. And in some cases, death scene clues have been obliterated by the fires.

“A lot of things we are saying are riot-related without the benefit of a good investigation,” said Capt. William Gartland, captain and commanding officer of the Los Angeles Police Department’s robbery and homicide division. “There’s a tendency to paint the bleakest picture.”

Other police officers note that a riot provides a good cover for warring gangs interested in revenge. “If you wanted to take someone out, now’s the time to do it,” said Lt. Rich Molony.

Veterans of riots in other cities say that the chaos involved makes it difficult for investigators to obtain the usual information, making it more likely that the toll from the rioting will include deaths that are unrelated.

“During a riot, the flow of information tends to be more fragmented and delayed,” said Dr. Joseph Davis, chief medical examiner for Dade County, who has worked for the department for 36 years and has seen several Miami riots.

“Much of it becomes dependent on the working relations between medical examiners and police. If there’s a problem, it’s a matter of communication. . . . And you have to look at the motives (of) people who want it to be riot-connected or don’t want it to be. I don’t like to use the word politics. “

Death Toll Here is a breakdown by gender and ethnic group of the riot victims.

GROUP MEN WOMEN TOTAL Black 20 5 25 Hispanic 18 1 19 White 9 1 10 Asian 2 -- 2 Unknown *2 -- 2 TOTAL 51 7 58

* Gender of one victim could not be determined. Source: L.A. County Coroner’s Office