The Creative Brew : GLEN AND LES CHARLES, JAMES BURROWS

As the minutes clicked to “Cheers’ ” closing time, the show’s creators and executive producers--Les and Glen Charles and director James Burrows--reminisced with Times Staff Writer Susan King about the show and its impact on television and the country.

It took “Cheers” three seasons to become a hit. These days, if series aren’t instantaneous hits they are usually yanked from the schedule. Do you think “Cheers” would have been given the opportunity to nurture if it premiered now?

Les Charles: I think it would depend on a lot of factors. There were a lot of shows that were getting the ax in those days. We happened to be at NBC, which at that time was a network which didn’t have a lot of successful shows. So they had to ride with us. They didn’t have a lot of options. (Former NBC President) Grant Tinker had just come along, and he had stated very clearly he was going to give quality television a chance. I think that could just as easily happen now.

Glen Charles: I think it is a different time now in that there is a clear anti-drinking attitude--not that we would do that much drinking on the show. I know some people didn’t want “Cheers” initially because it was set in a bar. I think that would be even more prevalent now. I think the Sam Malone character might not in this day and age be given the same latitude he was given. ...

L.C.: About sex?

G.C.: Yeah, his skirt-chasing. Now he is sort of ingrained in the public consciousness. So I think it would be a lot more difficult now. There is a proliferation of sitcoms. We came along at supposedly a bad time for sitcoms. There weren’t a lot on the air.

James Burrows: “Taxi” and us were the two “intelligent” sitcoms left on the air. I think also Grant will admit he had no show to replace us, plus Grant knew the three of us because we all started at MTM. There was a sense of loyalty. Plus, I think back then there was no corporate owner of the networks. With corporate people running the network, they are interested in financial numbers rather than creative numbers.

Do you see the influence of “Cheers” in current sitcoms?

L.C.: I think we may be flattering ourselves, but I think we do see “Cheers’ ” influence on shows. It sounds like we are criticizing those shows, but I think we were influenced by other people’s work. But one of the things we have done is bring conversation back to sitcom, or introduced it. We had a lot of people sitting around talking to each other, and I noticed that other shows like “Seinfeld” and “The Golden Girls” felt freer to do that. One of the things we discovered is that you can do very good shows without a lot of plot.

How have, or have, the characters evolved over the seasons?

J.B.: I think they have all by nature. I think Sam has not philandered as much as he used to. Carla has gone through a marriage and has had more kids. Woody is certainly less innocent than when he started, which has a lot to do with the actor. So they have matured that way. Cliff has stayed the same.

G.C.: Sam would be the character who has changed the most; time has changed, sexual mores have changed. At the same time, I think there is a little bit of hyper-reality in “Cheers” compared to a show like “Roseanne” or “All in the Family,” which are more reality-based. “Cheers,” I think, is more comparable to the screwball comedies of the ‘30s and ‘40s. The characters are a little exaggerated.

Do you have any favorite characters or is it like choosing your favorite child?

G.C.: It is really hard to have a favorite. I think there are some characters who are easier to write for--I think I would say Sam (is the easiest). He’s a great character. He is played so well by Ted. It was an evolutionary process with him. He didn’t walk on the set the first day as Sam. He has really changed and grown into it over the years. I think there are a lot of levels to Sam. He is an ex-athlete. He has a past. He has had a problem past with alcoholism. There are so many levels to write for and at the same time, he is very funny.

Do you identify with any of the characters?

L.C.: Sam is me. I admit it (laughs).

What emotions are you feeling with “Cheers” finally closing its doors?

L.C.: I am starting to get depressed.

J.B.: I have been depressed.

G.C.: Of course you are sad. I think there is a feeling that we have pretty much said all there is to say about these characters.

L.C.: I know we got into a kind of trap. When a show lasts 11 years and you have that strong an audience, it is hard to change things. In order for this show to have kept going, we would have had to make some kind of changes, some cast changes. I think some of the vitality was going out of the show. The way to fix it would have been to replace some of the people and the audiences wouldn’t want that.

J.B.: And we don’t want that. We have a wonderful family. We could have been forced to make a change with Ted not wanting to do it. We could have attempted to replace Sam, but none of us wanted to do that.