‘Smarter’ opinion polls; the Supreme Court and ‘punishment’; killer whale ‘shows.’

When a ‘yes’ vote isn’t

Re “Not present, but accounted for,” March 9

A Los Angeles City Council member sitting on the toilet or standing at the urinal during a vote can be regarded as having voted “yes” on it. This kind of gives new meaning to the concept of acting with “unclean hands.”

In other cities, the clerk removes a council member from the quorum if he leaves the room. In other cities, it is not uncommon to require breaks for people, including council members, to go to the bathroom, grab something to drink or to smoke. Not in Los Angeles.

The most sacred act of an elected official is to cast a vote on behalf of his or her constituents. It is time for the City Council of Los Angeles, for the first time in years, to be counted as present for a quorum only if visibly present in chambers -- and for council members be required to sit in their seats to cast a vote.

Cate Uccel
Los Angeles

Toward an educated poll

Re “Smarter polls,” Opinion, March 8

Smarter polls is an idea whose time has come. But Kevin O’Leary’s version of it -- “convening town halls to neutrally present facts, then asking citizens to read, think, debate and question those facts before sounding off” -- is too ponderous to be pragmatic. I’d suggest a simplified version in which three political questions would be asked as a test of citizen engagement. (“Name one person carried over into the Obama administration from the Bush administration”; “Who is the speaker of the House?”; “What president preceded George W. Bush?”)

If the person being polled is clueless, as O’Leary puts it, his choices should be scrapped as unqualified. Simple as that -- town halls and community congresses not needed.

Jules Brenner
Hollywood

O’Leary is right. Deliberative polls and citizen assemblies are the ideal paths to governing with reasoned and informed decisions.

Unfortunately, those on the far right and far left usually opine on the issues based on the messenger rather than the message. The issue of global warming is more about the strong proponent of this issue, Al Gore, than the evidence of climate change. And nothing Rush Limbaugh says will find support from the left.

This reflects a theory that many vote on an emotional level, not an intellectual one. Gather the rest of us -- we independents -- and poll us. We are the ones that decide elections anyway.

Vincent DeVita
Northridge

The price of punishment

Re “Echoes of two high court justices’ brutality stance,” March 7

The Times’ article regarding the legal positions of justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas, echoed by former Justice Department lawyer John C. Yoo, sent chills of anger through my spine.

It’s one thing to sit in your air-conditioned office playing semantic pingpong with the word “punishment,” and another to experience what these three apparently believe is acceptable conduct by government officials in a civilized world.

I suggest they submit themselves to this kind of treatment and tell us whether they think they were punished or not. It might be hard to see the distinction between “punishment” and “extracting information” while being beaten or subjected to waterboarding.

Rather than reach back to 1689, Scalia ought to use the definition of “punish” that most of us use: “to handle or treat harshly or roughly, to hurt.”

Alvin S. Tobias
Manhattan Beach

Thomas and Scalia believe that we should look back in history to define cruelty and torture rather than toward our “evolving standards of decency.”

In the interest of strict constructionism, I would recommend that Thomas and Scalia prepare their opinions by the light of oil lamps, dig their own privies, chop their own firewood for heat and, when ill, choose between bloodletting and leeches.

After all, the Constitution doesn’t say much at all about “progreff.”

Don Scott
Santa Barbara

Still worried about the bomb

Re “No need to ban the bomb,” March 9

Francis J. Gavin’s view that we do not face a proliferation epidemic provides little solace in a world of thousands of nuclear weapons.

His contention that no country “started” a nuclear weapons program since the Cold War ignores Syria’s undertaking and gives short shrift to Iran’s ongoing effort. While the nuclear terrorist risk many not be inevitable, stocks of high-enriched uranium at research reactors and separated plutonium remain a matter of concern.

Regarding the nuclear prudence of Mao or Stalin, we would be foolish to believe that benign history necessarily will repeat. Gavin further ignores the ever-present risk of nuclear war by failure of command and control, intelligence and fear of preemption.

Finally, casting the responsibility on the U.S. to make other nuclear countries feel secure absolves them of responsibility. One need only look at Washington’s good-faith efforts to coax North Korea to appreciate the challenge.

Bennett Ramberg
Los Angeles
The writer served in the State Department during the George H.W. Bush administration.

Animals and their planet

Re “None for the show,” Editorial, March 7

Thank you for confirming my long-held conviction that there is nothing right, and everything wrong, about breeding, holding captive and training huge wild mammals for entertainment purposes -- that is, profit.

In spite of the chorus of some wildlife “experts” and marine park staff, there is little justifiable education for the consumers in these shows, many of them children. I pray that in my lifetime elephants in circuses and cetaceans in marine shows will become an archaic amusement of the past.

Joanne Hedge
Glendale

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No. “The best way to appreciate the wonder of these animals” is not by watching a film but by experiencing nature in person on a whale-watching trip. Viewing a film cannot compare to experiencing a locale with all of your senses: smelling the salt air, feeling the ocean spray and the boat’s rocking, hearing the sound of water splashing and seeing a whale or dolphins or sea birds on their schedule -- not ours -- and the thrill that comes with that.

Film is an important adjunct.

Don’t mistake seeing a picture of something for interacting with it. This is a dialogue, not a monologue.

Maggie Blankley
Los Angeles