DICK WILLIAMS / TALKING BASEBALL : The Manager Looks Back at Last Season, Charts 1985 Course

He’s volatile, controversial and dictatorial. He is a forceful, sometimes temperamental ruler. And above all, he loathes losing.

Richard Hirshfield (Dick) Williams, 55, winner of three world championships in 17 seasons, is one of baseball’s most colorful managers. Not one to mince words, his players know where he stands. And those not willing to play Williams’ fundamentalist ballgame are asked to go elsewhere.

Williams once said, “I don’t manage by the book because I never found the guy who wrote it.”

The man who played 13 major league seasons and managed five clubs--Boston, Oakland, California, Montreal and the Padres--always has something to say. These days, however, in the serene atmosphere of the off season at his Coronado Cays’ home, Williams seems to perpetuate a live-and-let-live demeanor during an interview with The Times’ Steve Dolan.

Though the heat of a pennant drive and the pressure of the NL playoffs and World Series are only three months behind him, he’s willing to talk baseball--Padre baseball. The immediate past and the future of the team he has helped mold into one of the National League’s finest.

Williams praises Tony Gwynn and Alan Wiggins, two Padres who helped make the 1984 season a success. But a sardonic Williams emerges when he is questioned about the firing of pitching coach Norm Sherry and the manager’s strategy during the World Series. Some things never change.

A conversation with Dick Williams:

Question: How do you evaluate the trade with the White Sox and the signing of free agents Jerry Royster and Tim Stoddard?

Answer: I think the acquisition of LaMarr Hoyt was an outstanding achievement. Here’s a fella whose last three years are the best of any pitcher in baseball, American League or National League. And he had an off season last year. Had he not had an off year, we wouldn’t have been able to touch him. We’re not getting damaged goods. He had an off season, and his whole club had an off season. They should’ve won that division hands down, and they didn’t. We gave up a starting pitcher (Tim Lollar) who we replaced with a starting pitcher. We gave up a third baseman, backup outfielder and utility infielder in Luis Salazar. Getting Royster is that replacement. Stoddard springs Andy Hawkins and Dave Dravecky to start. Getting him also takes care of replacing anybody we had moved, plus it solidifies our pitching staff.

The big thing, and it’s unfortunate, is (Ed) Whitson went where he could get the most money. I could understand his position. We hate to lose him. Here again, we couldn’t get into a bidding war. Maybe we would’ve given him five years at the end, I don’t know. The money he got was pretty high for a guy who’s three games under .500 lifetime.

Q: How do you plan to replace Whitson?

A: We’ll be able to fill in with either Dravecky or Hawkins. One of the two will step in and take that job. We also have Hoyt, (Eric) Show and (Mark) Thurmond, so we’ll be all set.

Q: Are you disappointed that the Padres were unable to sign Rick Sutcliffe or Fred Lynn?

A: Naturally, you would like to have a quality guy like Sutcliffe or Lynn. We made an honest effort on both of them and it just didn’t work out. You can’t dwell on it.

Q: Since you lost two starting pitchers and gained only one, does that put a lot of pressure on Hoyt to produce?

A: He’s a known quality pitcher. I’m not concerned about him at all. They say he’ll have to learn the hitters of the league. The hitters of the league will also have to learn him. He throws strikes. To me, he’s a Catfish Hunter-type pitcher. He’s a money pitcher.

I think we’ll get steady improvement from the other guys. That experience we had of winning the division and playoffs and getting to the World Series has to help all of us. Our starters didn’t do so well, but anything can happen in a short series.

Q: Are you concerned that your pitchers might suffer any aftereffects from the World Series?

A: I wouldn’t think so. I’d be really surprised if they weren’t able to rebound. They’re too good of competitors.

Q: Was the firing of pitching coach Norm Sherry after the World Series your decision?

A: It was not my decision. But when Ballard Smith, Jack McKeon and I meet, anything that comes out of it we all agree on. This was something that went beyond me and anything I could do to not have it happen. A few people went over all of our heads and went up to Ballard, which was bad.

Q: Are you talking about players?

A: Oh, yes. And that’s the only thing I can say.

Q: What about the statement that Sherry was fired because of a lack of communication with his pitchers?

A: That’s what anybody says when a manager is fired. I don’t buy that, it’s a bunch of baloney.

I do know there were some people who did not want Norm in the bullpen when they were warming up, and they didn’t listen to his instructions. He handled a guy pretty well one time and got him to throw strikes. His name was Sandy Koufax. So, I think Norm knows a little about it.

Q: How does your bullpen shape up after Goose Gossage, Craig Lefferts and Stoddard?

A: We’re going to have a fight for the other two jobs. (Luis) DeLeon will be one of those fighting for a job. He’s going to have to go like the devil and show us he’s sound and will be able to pitch. We also have (Greg) Booker, (Greg) Harris and the young kids. We’ll probably go with 10 pitchers maximum, and we will have 18 in camp.

Q: How do you feel about Hawkins since he has had three up-and-down years for you?

A: Hawkins had his best performances after he was sent to the bullpen and we spot-started him in second games of doubleheaders. He’s the guy who kept us from having sustained losing streaks when we were having trouble. We put it on the line to him in the playoffs and Series. He was brilliant, probably the best guy we had out there.

Q: How do you plan on using Gossage?

A: I used him five innings in three different games last year. Twice he wanted to, and the other time it was a necessity. Then, that knocks him out four or five days. I don’t want to get involved in that again. In fact, I don’t want to use him more than two innings if I can help it. I’d like to have him be able to come back the next day and give me an out, two-thirds of an inning or a full inning if I need it.

I haven’t discussed it with him, but I know he’s been working out in (Padre trainer) Dick Dent’s program all winter. He’s been tossing three times a week. At our club golf tournament, he looked as svelte as I have seen him. I think he’s out to prove that he’s even a better pitcher than he showed last year. If we didn’t have him, we wouldn’t have won it last year. Goose thinks he had a below-average Goose season last year, but I don’t think so.

Q: Are you hoping to have Terry Kennedy catch fewer games this year?

A: Yes. Another thing we’re looking for is a third catcher. Bruce Bochy may be the guy to do the playing against certain left-handed pitchers. He didn’t get that many opportunities last year. Near the end of the year when he played, he did quite well. I’d still like a third catcher so I could utilize one as a bench man. Kennedy shouldn’t have to catch 150 games. That’s unfair to him.

Q: Could Kennedy play elsewhere when he is not catching?

A: The logical place for him to play would be first base. Steve Garvey holds that down, and he never wants a day off.

Q: Do you plan on playing Garvey 162 games this year, as he would desire?

A: No. I don’t anticipate it. That would be unfair, too. He’s not going to set any endurance records any more than he already has in the National League. He’s not going to start another one to beat his own performance. That’s too many years.

There might be times against tough right-handers we could rest him, or certainly the second game of a doubleheader or a day game after a long night game. There isn’t any need for that. What you may think you’re accomplishing in April may hurt you in August.

Q: Did Garvey’s lack of power and production bother you last year?

A: The power part did. He hit eight home runs in a year. Before he broke his thumb the year before, he was off to a start that would have given him more than 20 home runs and 100 RBIs. He still gets his RBIs, but there’s no question his power did drop. I’m quite sure he’s more than an eight-home-run hitter.

Q: Is Alan Wiggins at second base to stay now?

A: I wouldn’t want to move him away from there. Not unless some phenom came along through our system or we acquired one in a trade and that was the only position he could play. With Wig’s speed, he has to have a spot on the ballclub. I’d hate to move him back to the outfield. He wouldn’t get hurt by going there, but it really isn’t fair asking him to move back and forth. He made a large number of errors early last year, a lot that were meaningless. He scores runs and steals bases. He knows he belongs at second base now.

Q: Do you have any experiments planned for 1985 such as moving Wiggins to second base last year?

A: Not really. Before acquiring Royster, left field could’ve created a problem if we had acquired Lynn. We might have had Carmelo Martinez take grounders at third. On days when teams throw left-handers or (Graig) Nettles needs a rest, I’ll have Royster to play. I may stick Carmelo at third base in a spring training game.

Q: What are your plans for Martinez this year?

A: Carmelo is my left fielder. Brownie (Bobby Brown) will compete, and it could be a platoon situation. They both mentioned that they want to prove something. Both had a tough time in the Series.

Q: Were you bothered by the criticism you received for not making a change in your outfield or pitching rotation in the World Series?

A: It didn’t bother me one bit.

Q: If you had it to do over, would you do anything different in the World Series?

A: I’d do it the same. Those were the guys that got us there. We couldn’t do anything about Kevin McReynolds being hurt. I don’t know who in the world I would’ve put in that I think would’ve been better.

The people that say those things probably never wore a jock strap in their life, so you don’t worry about things like that. Their job is to write, mine is to manage.

Q: Do you expect McReynolds to be healthy enough to open the season after suffering his broken wrist?

A: I haven’t heard anything to say otherwise. The last time he was X-rayed, everything was going well. Time will tell if we have to go slow with him in spring training. But there’s nothing to say he is incapacitated like the situation with (Atlanta third baseman) Bob Horner. Kevin has had healing. There has not been healing progress shown with Horner. Kevin hasn’t had problems, where Tony Gwynn had problems with his broken wrist.

Q: Can Gwynn continue to hit as well as last year?

A: I haven’t seen anything to say that he can’t. To me, he’s like Rod Carew or Al Oliver. He’s going to keep getting his base hits. He hits like they do and uses all fields. He has a magic wand. Whether he hits it soft or hard, he has the knack of finding holes. And the big thing is, he drives in runs.

We can’t expect him to hit .351 every year. He’s a natural .300 hitter and he scores a lot of runs.

Q: If the season began today, what might your lineup be?

A: Your best hitter should hit third in the lineup. My best hitter hit second last year, but he could also run. I wanted the speed there. We found out that Templeton had better production in the eighth spot. His knee was sound last year. Because of his knee, he hasn’t run as much as we hoped he would. But then, that’s understandable. I don’t want to put him in the second spot and force him to run.

At this time, our lineup would probably be Wiggins leading off, Gwynn, more than likely Garvey and Nettles. McReynolds and Kennedy would follow. But that could change.

Q: Do you agree with the image you have of being a harsh manager?

A: I’m demanding. If we have problems and I’m on somebody, it’s because he’s not doing the job I want done or he’s not complying with what we want done. All I’m doing is trying my best to do my job. Sure, you can have fun. We had a lot of fun in Oakland.

If I see a fella with a lot of talent not getting the best out of his talent, we’re going to talk about it and work harder. I keep saying this and a lot of people don’t agree: show up on time, give me the best you have that day and don’t make mental mistakes. If you do that, we won’t have problems.

Q: Do you have any players from the farm system who might help next year?

A: Our reports are good on a couple of kids. Ed Wojna is throwing the ball well in Puerto Rico now. We might find a surprise. I couldn’t guarantee a job. Invariably, somebody always stands out.

Q: How do you evaluate the other teams in the National League West?

A: San Francisco hasn’t done a thing, yet. (Gary) Lavelle balked at the deal they made with Detroit. They acquired a catcher with (Doug) Gwosdz. Cincinnati, I guess, decided to stay with youth.

Atlanta has made a complete (coaching) staff change and there is the question with Horner. They got Bruce Sutter, which is a big, big thing for them. It springs (Steve) Bedrosian to start, which should help them. Horner being out hurts them. It puts a strain on (Dale) Murphy.

The Dodgers got a year’s experience forced on them with youngsters. I think it’s going to pay off. Tommy (Lasorda) found out a lot about his kids. Even though they were force-fed, I think a lot of them will be more relaxed next year. You can never count them out, anyway. They are always capable of being a contending ballclub.

If Dickie Thon is healthy, he makes Houston that much stronger. If that ballclub ever gets off to any kind of a decent start, it will be a club to deal with. That’s the club I feared most last year.

Q: Which club do you fear most in 1985?

A: Houston fits right into that, and I always fear the Dodgers. The guy managing the Atlanta ballclub, Eddie Haas, had a lot of those kids the past few years in the minors. I don’t want to sell anyone short. I do know we’ll face the best everyone has to offer. The same will apply to the Cubs.

Q: How difficult will it be to repeat in 1985?

A: It will be very difficult. It’ll take total dedication by myself, the staff and definitely the players.

Q: Do you sense that the public expects you to automatically win again in 1985?

A: Since we won it last year, maybe they think we should win it all the time. It’s hard to say. The public didn’t get involved until the second half of last year. They were certainly instrumental in helping us beat the Cubs. We’re going to try to win it again.

Q: What will it take for the Padres to win again in 1985?

A: We need to stay healthy like last year. I think we have the talent.