Candidates Clash Sharply; Values, Programs Stressed

In a sometimes acrimonious debate that could have a significant impact on their close race for the presidency, Vice President George Bush presented himself Sunday as a champion of traditional values, and Michael S. Dukakis offered solutions to a host of problems that he said the Reagan Administration had neglected.

The candidates clashed repeatedly and contentiously, with Bush branding Dukakis as “a card-carrying member of the American Civil Liberties Union” and Dukakis implicating Bush in the Iran-Contra affair and the Reagan Administration’s negotiations with Panamanian strongman Manuel A. Noriega.

Each candidate clearly sought the support of the large middle ground of undecided voters, particularly the “Reagan Democrats” who defected from their party in 1980 and 1984 to support Ronald Reagan.

Negotiate From Strength

Bush, the Republican, promised to continue President Reagan’s policies of keeping the government out of the private economy’s way. Dwelling on his experience in foreign affairs, he held himself out as the candidate who could be trusted to negotiate with the Soviets from strength.

“In the final analysis,” he said in his closing statement, “the person goes into that voting booth, they’re going to say: Who has the values I believe in? Who has the experience that we trust? Who has the integrity and the stability to get the job done? My fellow Americans, I am that man.”

Dukakis, the Democrat, offered programs aimed at such problems as homelessness, Americans without health insurance, and the federal budget deficit. And he insisted that, as a governor who had balanced the Massachusetts state budget for 10 years, he had the executive experience necessary to put such programs in place.

“The best America doesn’t leave some of its citizens behind . . . we bring everybody along,” Dukakis declared in his closing statement. “And the best America is not behind us, the best America is yet to come.”

Dukakis, setting the debate’s combative tone, repeatedly linked the vice president with the Administration’s negotiations with Panamanian strongman Noriega, who has been indicted in Florida on drug trafficking charges. He hammered Bush for acceding to the Administration’s policy of trading arms and hostages with Iran.

Bush counterpunched by portraying Dukakis as an ultra-liberal who would lead the nation to the “far left.”

‘I’m More in Touch’

“I think I’m more in touch with the mainstream of America,” the vice president insisted.

Neither candidate committed a major gaffe during the 90-minute televised debate, which was held at Wake Forest University in Winston-Salem, N.C. But both occasionally expressed anger, and near the end Bush said he had hoped the encounter would have been “friendlier.”

The debate’s “winner” may not be determined until the Nov. 8 election. As past presidential debates have shown, the public frequently confounds the analysts by focusing on aspects of the give-and-take that the news media all but overlook.

An ABC poll of 639 voters who watched the debate found that 44% thought Dukakis had won while 36% chose Bush and 20% called it a tie.

After the debate, Bush made a quick stop at a rambunctious rally in a fairground cow barn, telling several hundred partisans: “Tonight we had a little debate over there. It is my firm belief that we had an opportunity to spell out my dreams and my objectives, and I am not going to let this man move to the center and try to get away from his past.”

Dukakis, although grinning broadly, declined to claim victory when he spoke before several thousand Democrats at a post-debate rally in a downtown ballroom. Predicting “a long, hard fight,” he said: “The message tonight that we were able to convey was that the Democratic Party and the Democratic ticket are prepared to provide leadership . . . on the real concerns of Americans.”

The Massachusetts governor, on the defensive during much of the campaign, came out swinging after Bush fielded the opening question about ways to combat drug abuse in America by urging a return to traditional values and an emphasis on instilling values in young people in the schools.

Dealing With Dictator

Concurring with Bush that values were important, Dukakis added: “It’s important that our leaders demonstrate those values from the top. That means those of us who are elected to positions of political leadership have to reflect those values ourselves. Here we are with a government that’s been dealing with a drug-running Panamanian dictator.”

As President, Dukakis insisted that he would never make the mistake of trying to deal with hostage-takers, as the Reagan Administration did in the Iran-Contra affair. He recalled that while in the Philippines many years ago, Bush had praised ousted dictator Ferdinand E. Marcos for his devotion to democracy.

Bush acknowledged that he had met with Noriega in the early days of the Administration and admitted to having praised Marcos, but--as usual--he refused to be drawn into a debate about the pros and cons of the Iran-Contra affair. He also dismissed these as small items in comparison to the Reagan Administration’s list of foreign policy accomplishments.

Fighting back, the vice president portrayed Dukakis as a free-spending liberal who was soft on defense and who would return the nation to the high interest rates of the Jimmy Carter Administration.

Linking Dukakis with the liberal ACLU, Bush said of that organization: “I don’t think they’re right to try to take the tax exemption away from the Catholic Church. I don’t want to see their kiddie pornographic law repealed. I don’t want to see ‘under God’ come out from our currency.”

Attacks on Patriotism

Bush also renewed his attacks on Dukakis for vetoing a bill that would have required teachers to lead students in the Pledge of Allegiance to the American flag and for presiding over a Massachusetts program that permitted weekend furloughs for prisoners convicted of violent crimes.

In raising the flag issue, Bush denied that he was questioning Dukakis’ patriotism.

But Dukakis declared, “Of course, the vice president is questioning my patriotism. I don’t think there’s any question about that. And I resent it. I resent it. My parents came to this country as immigrants. They taught me that this was the greatest country in the world. I’m in public service because I love this country.”

Turning the issue against Bush, Dukakis asked why the vice president never led the Senate--over which he presides--in the pledge.

Tearing into Bush on another issue where polls show he is vulnerable, Dukakis questioned the qualifications of Bush’s vice presidential running mate, Sen. Dan Quayle of Indiana, to be “a heartbeat away” from the presidency. “I think for most people the notion of ‘President Quayle’ is a very, very troubling notion tonight,” he said.

‘Unfair Pounding’

Bush replied that Quayle had his “full confidence” and said the senator, the object of many news stories concerning his academic record and his National Guard service during the Vietnam War, had been the victim of an “unfair pounding” by the press.

Both candidates kept their composure throughout most of the debate, but Bush appeared rattled near the end as Dukakis continued to hammer away about Noriega and the Iran-Contra affair.

“I’ll make a deal with you,” he said, turning to his opponent. “I will take all the blame for those two incidents if you give me half the credit for all the good things that have happened in world peace since Ronald Reagan and I took over from the Carter Administration.”

At another point, after fumbling an answer about missile deployment, Bush shot a glance at Dukakis and declared: “Wouldn’t it be nice to be perfect; wouldn’t it be nice to be the iceman so you never made a mistake.”

On defense policy, the candidates clashed directly and heatedly on the Administration’s controversial Strategic Defense Initiative, as the “Star Wars” anti-missile program is formally called. Each accused the other of shifting positions.

Program Called Fantasy

Dukakis, calling the program a fantasy as put forward by Reagan in 1983, said that “to continue to commit billions to this system makes no sense at all.” At the same time, he promised to spent $1 billion a year--the 1983 level--on research for the program.

Bush countered by asking why Dukakis would be “willing to spend a dime on something that you consider a fantasy and a fraud?” The vice president said he would “fully research” the “Star Wars” program--implicitly at the current level of about $3.7 billion--and deploy the missile shield in space when and if the research proved its feasibility.

Dukakis turned several defense-related questions into attacks on Bush’s endorsement of arms sales to Iran, the Administration’s involvement with Noriega and its “failed policy in Central America,” which he alleged “has increased Soviet and Cuban involvement in the region.”

Bush recalled Dukakis’ support for the “nuclear freeze” in 1982, which, he said, “would have locked the United States into inferiority with the Soviet Union.”

List of Weapons

The vice president also recited a list of weapons Dukakis has said he would eliminate. Crediting the Reagan Administration’s military buildup with forcing the Soviet Union to sign a treaty banning medium-range nuclear missiles and to negotiate a 50% cut in long-range missiles, he said: “I’m not going to give away a couple of aces in that very tough card game.”

Dukakis said the Administration had overspent on major missile systems even while “cutting into the fiber and muscle of our conventional forces. . . . Coast Guard cutters tied up at the dock this summer, not patrolling--they’re supposed to be our first line of defense against drugs and the war against drugs--because they don’t have enough fuel.”

Bush shot back that the Democratic Congress had cut $70 million from the Coast Guard anti-drug program and asked for Dukakis’ help in reversing that action.

On a leading domestic policy issue--what to do to reduce the federal budget deficit--neither Bush nor Dukakis responded directly. But their answers revealed stark differences in their approach to domestic policy.

On the bread-and-butter issues, Dukakis made it clear he thought the federal government should be doing more to help people, while Bush said he would avoid raising taxes and try to keep the government from spending more.

sh ‘Spend Too Much’

“The problem is, it’s not that the working man is being taxed too little, or the . . . woman working in some factory being taxed too little,” Bush said. “It is that we are continuing to spend too much.”

But Dukakis charged that Bush and the Reagan Administration, by leaving most domestic problems to the private sector, had neglected important social and economic maladies. “This Administration has cut and slashed and cut and slashed programs for children, for nutrition, for the kinds of things that can help these youngsters to live better lives,” he said.

Dukakis said the government should do more to provide housing for low-income and moderate-income families, cutting back on unnecessary defense programs to pay for it.

“Do we spend money on (SDI) in the billions and trillions,” he asked, “or is providing some decent affordable housing for families of this country something that isn’t at least as important?”

Bush, rather than directly defending the Reagan Administration’s sharp cuts in federal housing programs, took credit for bringing down interest rates to help reduce the cost of mortgage payments.

Misery and Malaise

“Housing is up. We are serving a million more families now. But we’re not going to do it in that old Democratic liberal way of trying to build more bricks and mortars. If we spend and spend and spend, that is going to wrap up the housing market and we’ll go right back to the days of the misery index and malaise.”

Dukakis and Bush also disagreed on the best way to provide health insurance for some 37 million Americans, including many working families, who are not covered under any health insurance plan.

The vice president opposed Dukakis’ proposal to make providing health insurance a requirement for private employers.

“One thing I will not do is sock every business in this country (with such a program) and thus throw some people out of work,” he said. “What I will do is permit people to buy into Medicaid. I believe that’s the answer . . . so people at the lowest end can buy in there.”

Dukakis called Bush’s program “no answer to those 37 million people, most of them members of working families, who don’t have a dime of health insurance.”

Tax Proposal Defended

On taxes, Bush defended his proposal to reduce the capital gains tax on investments. Under the 1986 tax overhaul, such capital gains are taxed like ordinary income, but Bush has proposed to cut the current rate for more affluent families who pay either a 28% or 33% rate to a maximum 15%.

Dukakis urged the American public to “listen to the vice president very carefully. What he’s proposing . . . is a tax cut for the wealthiest 1% of the people in this country. An average of about $30,000 that we’re going to give to people making (more than) $200,000 a year. Why, that’s more than the average teacher makes. We’ve had enough of that.”

The journalists doing the questioning during the debate were John Mashek of the Atlanta Constitution, Anne Groer of the Orlando Sentinel and Peter Jennings of ABC television, along with moderator Jim Lehrer of the Public Broadcasting System.

Through the numerous primary election debates earlier this year, various formats were tried. But the formula of using reporters to pose questions, rather than putting the candidates on stage one-on-one, seems to be the only format that both sides would agree to use.

Bush and Dukakis will meet again in Los Angeles Oct. 13 (or Oct. 14 if the baseball World Series runs to seven games) under sponsorship of the League of Women Voters. The format has not been settled but it is expected that it will be much like Sunday’s.

Contributing to this story were staff writers Sara Fritz, Josh Getlin, Melissa Healy, Doyle McManus, Tom Redburn and Robert Toth.