Will Not Change Tactics: Dukakis : Insists in TV Interview That He Is Gaining

Democratic presidential nominee Michael S. Dukakis, in a 90-minute gamble he hoped would put his embattled campaign back on track, insisted in a nationally televised interview Tuesday night that he would not change his strategy or his message in the campaign’s final two weeks.

Dukakis repeatedly insisted that his campaign is “gaining,” and that he is “optimistic” of victory on Nov. 8 despite new polls showing his campaign losing ground.

Assails ‘Falsehoods’

In a live interview on “Nightline” with ABC correspondent Ted Koppel, Dukakis repeated his charges that Republican presidential nominee George Bush has relied on “distortions and falsehoods” to fuel his campaign.

“I have faith in the American people,” Dukakis said.

But Koppel repeatedly pressed the Massachusetts governor on a variety of issues--drugs, Middle East peace, terrorism, arms control with the Soviet Union--to say what he would do as President that Bush would not.

Dukakis, who appeared uncomfortable at times with deep frowns and a furrowed brow, offered few specifics. He suggested, instead, that he would carry out existing policies better.

Dukakis is the first presidential candidate ever to have 90-minutes of free TV time to make his case before voters so close to Election Day. Aides hope the appearance will help Dukakis overtake the clear lead that Bush enjoys in most polls.

But the Democrat offered no major departures from his previous campaign themes in the lengthy interview, conducted as he sat in an armchair across from Koppel in a Denver hotel suite.

Pressed to explain how he would gain release of U.S. hostages in Lebanon, Dukakis insisted that he would “never make concessions to terrorists,” but acknowledged that he didn’t have a solution to the problem that has humbled the last two presidents.

“I don’t know there is anything I would do that someone else wouldn’t do,” he said. “I don’t, nor does anybody, have any magic wand you can wave over the situation and produce those hostages.”

Pauses Before Answer

Dukakis paused when Koppel asked if he would recognize Iran. “I think there’s a serious question of whether Iran wants to be a serious member of the international community,” he said. “So no, I don’t think so.”

Asked about defense priorities, Dukakis said the next President would have to make “tough choices” to maintain a strong defense within the Pentagon’s presumably stagnant budget. “I’m prepared to do so,” he added. “I don’t think George Bush is.”

Dukakis attacked Bush for his role leading the Administration’s war on drugs. He said he would call for a hemispherical summit to coordinate anti-drug efforts and would use “some portion” of the U.S. foreign aid budget to help Latin American countries help eliminate drug trafficking.

But, noting the country faces “tough fiscal constraints,” Dukakis declined to say how much more he would spend than the Reagan Administration.

Dukakis repeatedly criticized what he called Bush’s “negative campaigning,” saying voters are “tiring” of those tactics.

Attacks Bush Ad

He attacked Bush’s use of ads that focus on Willie Horton and a now-suspended Massachusetts furlough program as “one of the most cynical and hypocritical uses of a personal tragedy for political purposes.”

Koppel, however, chided him. “I still don’t think you get it,” he said. Bush has been “kicking you in the groin,” Koppel said, who then asked Dukakis what Bush had done to “nail your hide to the wall.”

Without quibbling with Koppel’s assessment, Dukakis replied:

“Two things. The Bush campaign made a very careful and deliberate decision way back in the spring to run a tough, attacking, negative campaign, and they’ve been doing it ever since. And perhaps I responded too late, perhaps I should have been out there attacking or counterattacking from the beginning.”

Dukakis objected that Bush and his campaign aides had “questioned my patriotism, they questioned my wife’s patriotism . . . they questioned my health.

“I’m going to continue to work as hard as I can,” to rebut the charges, he said.

Resists Definition

When Koppel asked Dukakis to define “liberal,” a term Bush has used all year to attack the Massachusetts governor, the Democrat initially resisted.

“I think all of us have combinations of liberal and conservative,” Dukakis said. But as Koppel persisted, Dukakis said a liberal “cares deeply about people” and “cares deeply about public service.”

He then added quickly, however, that “I have lots of conservative instincts, too.” He noted that he had signed a tough anti-pornography law, cut taxes five times and balanced 10 state budgets.

“In some ways, I’m more fiscally conservative than George Bush,” he said.

‘A Little Frustrated’

At the close of the interview, Dukakis admitted that he was “a little frustrated by my inability to get closer to people” during the campaign. But he insisted that he is “not unhappy” with the long campaign process.

Koppel originally had invited both Bush and Dukakis to appear on “Nightline,” but only the Massachusetts governor agreed to appear. Dukakis aides argued that his willingness to face Koppel’s questions was a sharp contrast to Bush’s more insular campaign.

But aides also acknowledged that Dukakis hoped to offset the negative reviews he garnered in his second and final debate with Bush on Oct 13 in Los Angeles.

‘Warm Fuzzies’ Gone

“All this stuff from the second debate about ‘likability’ and ‘warm fuzzies,’ that’s gone,” said campaign chairman Paul A. Brountas. “This is a chance for Mike Dukakis to go before the American people and talk about the issues.”

Dukakis also will be interviewed by Dan Rather on the CBS Evening News on Thursday. The same day, he has scheduled an interview with David Frost of Fox Broadcasting. And on Friday, he will tape an interview with NBC’s Tom Brokaw. More TV interviews will follow next week.

Dukakis’ criticism of Bush echoed his campaign’s attempt to focus attention on GOP campaign tactics and advertising, in the hope that voters will blame the vice president for the unrelieved nastiness of this year’s race.

“There are lies, damn lies and George Bush’s commercials,” said Dukakis campaign manager Susan Estrich in a statement earlier Tuesday.

Dukakis aides also gave out detailed lists entitled “Lies and Distortions in Bush/Quayle Campaign Ads,” “Bush’s Lies and Distortions About Mike Dukakis,” and “Bush’s Lies and Distortions About His Own Record.”

Press Conference Called

The criticism clearly was aimed at forcing Bush on the defensive. On Monday, Bush publicly denied Democratic charges that his campaign was spreading lies about Dukakis or was using racist code words, and called the charges “signs . . . of desperation.” But on Tuesday, Bush campaign strategists felt compelled to hold a press conference in Washington at which several prominent Republicans attempted a point-by-point refutation of the Democrats’ accusations.

Dukakis’ sudden willingness to appear on live TV comes after months of refusing most network requests. He refused to appear on “Nightline” before the Democratic National Convention last July, for example, unless he was allowed to sit one-on-one with Koppel, instead of in a separate studio. For Tuesday’s interview, Koppel flew to Denver so that the interview could occur face to face.

Dukakis has not appeared on a Sunday TV talk show since before the Iowa caucuses last February. Appearing then on “Meet the Press,” he said that U.S. policy had “superseded” the Monroe Doctrine. He was forced to retract the claim the next week.

Campaign Repeats Ad

Dukakis’ new media strategy will include four five-minute TV ads in coming days. An hour before “Nightline” on Tuesday, the campaign repeated a 5-minute network TV spot that it originally ran last Saturday. Dukakis contends in the ad, authored by Democratic consultant Robert Shrum, that the GOP has used a campaign of “distortion and distraction, of fear and of smear.”