The Orange County Poll : Gangs, Crime Feared Most by Vietnamese

The first extensive survey of Orange County’s Vietnamese community reveals tremendous fear of gangs and crime, strong ties to tradition and a great need for assistance in mastering English.

The estimated 100,000 Vietnamese who have settled in Orange County have experienced a complex transition between two cultures, but despite problems with assimilation, an overwhelming number (96%) say their lives in Orange County are going “very well” or “somewhat well.”

Nevertheless, nearly two-thirds of the county’s Vietnamese perceive at least some prejudice here, though most say they have not experienced it personally.

These are among the findings of the most recent Times Orange County Poll, which was conducted in Vietnamese and English. The poll of 400 adult residents was conducted Jan. 21 to 26 by Mark Baldassare & Associates of Irvine. The poll has a margin of error of plus or minus 5%.

The poll paints a picture of a somewhat insular community, where Vietnamese is the main language in 83% of the households, 76% of the population still has contact with friends and relatives in Vietnam and 61% spend their money mainly in Vietnamese stores and restaurants.

Those surveyed were almost evenly divided on whether renewing U.S. diplomatic ties with Vietnam would have a good effect on Vietnamese residents in this country. They also were nearly evenly split on whether they would visit Vietnam if relations between the two nations were normalized.

“That’s surprising,” Baldassare said. “This is perhaps the most heated subject in the Vietnamese community today. To some extent it’s a political issue, but I think it’s also a personal issue. Some members of the community see benefits of future ties while others cannot forget the past.”

Among the other findings of the poll:

- Slightly more than half of those surveyed disapproved of the recent decision to lower the quota on Vietnamese refugees coming into the United States so that more Soviet refugees could immigrate here. More than a quarter favored continuing some sort of immigration restrictions on Vietnamese refugees, however.

- Close to two-thirds said their households strongly adhered to Vietnamese customs and traditions, and another 35% said they adhered “somewhat.”

- Almost half said the children in their families are not expected to marry someone who is Vietnamese.

Those surveyed were asked what they thought was “the most serious problem facing the Vietnamese people in Orange County today.” No answer was suggested in the interviews.

Forty-one percent volunteered that gangs and crime constitute the biggest problem of all, and the concern was uniform regardless of age, income level or length of residency in the United States. The only variance was by gender; 50% of women considered gangs and crime the most serious problem, contrasted with 31% of men.

“Gangs and crime were so interlinked (by those being interviewed) that we could not distinguish one from the other,” Baldassare said. “For people in the Vietnamese community, those issues are one and the same.

“This is one of the most significant findings of this poll. When you find four out of 10 mentioning it, it’s quite clearly a pressing problem in the Vietnamese community. The issue of crime and gangs in Orange County as a whole is not ever noted as a serious problem by more than 10% of the population” in other polls.

Said one local Vietnamese resident who requested anonymity: “We have a tremendous problem with gang members. They extort money. At the restaurants, they eat free. The owners complain to other Vietnamese but don’t tell police. If they tell, the police make arrests, but when these gang members get out on bail, the restaurant has trouble later.

“In Vietnam we would have put them in jail already. We had secret police who could do that. We need them here. I know the law says you cannot stop them and that this is a free country, but they know that too. That’s why it’s hard for police to stop them.”

When asked directly, “How much of a problem are gangs and violent crime?” 87% of those surveyed said they considered them either a “big problem” or “somewhat of a problem.” Only 13% considered them “not a problem at all.”

Law enforcement officials say the Southeast Asian population has grown so quickly that police departments have not been able to keep pace with it. Departments have scrambled to recruit officers who speak Vietnamese, and officers complain that they need bigger budgets to fight the gangs.

Recently, Garden Grove and Westminster applied for a $300,000 grant to combat what they say is a rising tide of Asian gang activity.

Police in those two cities have established separate substations in Little Saigon, and both are kept busy. “Our detail down there can hardly keep up with the crime complaints,” said Garden Grove Police Lt. John Urbanowski.

Said Garden Grove Police Lt. Stu Finkelstein: “The shootings that have taken place in the (Vietnamese) restaurants have been gangs or gang associates, and those people we’ve arrested have been primarily involved in gangs. We’ve got information that indicates they are also involved in arson and extortion.”

In spite of the expressed concern about gangs and crime, the desire for better police protection was far down the list of what those interviewed thought were “government programs . . . most needed for the Vietnamese people living in Orange County.” Only 17% listed police protection as the greatest need.

“You see, in our community, we do not feel that police protection is a very effective way to handle gangs and crime,” said Nhu Hao T. Duong, director of Community Resources Opportunity Project in Santa Ana. Duong,surname 46, immigrated to the United States in 1975.

“Not many police departments have staff that are culturally sensitive to the Vietnamese youth-gang issues and can deal with those issues effectively,” she said. “It would be very difficult for police to get an accurate picture of what’s going on with those gangs.

“And the Vietnamese people, they do not trust police. It comes from (experience with) Vietnamese police, especially the Communists.”

Employment and business development programs were mentioned by 25% of those asked about the biggest needs of the Vietnamese community, but the largest single segment--33%--said English language classes are the greatest need.

Educators said the demand for such classes had risen tremendously, especially among Latino residents, because of the amnesty program under the new federal Immigration Act.

A spokesman for the Garden Grove Unified School District, the major provider of English language classes for the Vietnamese community, agrees that the number of classes available is not meeting the demand.

There are about 8,000 students from various ethnic groups enrolled in the district’s 58 English language classes. There will have been 18,000 students enrolled at one time or another during this school year.

“We can’t establish any other classes. We’re maxed out. We’re over our cap now,” said Roger B. Braasch, director of adult education for the school district. He said the district is limited by how much money the state is willing to allocate for such education. The district is spending more than its state allocation now, he said.

“You can call any school district (in the same area), and you’re going to get the same information,” he said.

The amnesty program under the federal Immigration Act requires English proficiency, and the result has been a flood of new students, almost all of them Latino, Braasch said. Night classes are most in demand and fill quickly, while some seats in morning and afternoon classes go unfilled. As many as 400 people are waiting for class openings, he said.

“There are classes available,” said Mai Cong, a director of the Vietnamese Community of Orange County Inc., a private social services agency. “Sometimes the classes are not accessible because of many, many reasons. People who work in the daytime have to go to class at night, but maybe there is no bus then. And maybe they also have children and can’t leave them at night, especially the mothers.”

Language classes are important, Duong said, because “it takes so much longer to learn than a vocational skill. Usually Vietnamese learn vocational skills very fast. That’s why they perceive a need for English classes; English lags behind their technical and vocations skills.”

Asked how much prejudice there is against Vietnamese people in Orange County, 23% of those surveyed answered “a lot” and another 39% answered “some”--a total of 62%.

Most of those interviewed said they personally had suffered none of the usual types of racial discrimination.

But 17% said they or someone in their household had been the targets of racial insults or threats, and 9% said they or someone in their household had been denied jobs because they are Vietnamese. Six percent said they or someone in their household had been refused service at a store, restaurant or other public place, and 5% said they or someone in their household had been denied housing because of their ethnic background.

As a whole, 72% reported experiencing no act of discrimination personally, while 28% said they or someone in their household had been the target of at least one type of discrimination.

“It (prejudice) is mainly not aimed directly at” the Vietnamese person, said Tra Mi Trong of Irvine, who immigrated to Orange County when she was 8 and now is a 21-year-old college student. “Mainly it’s just verbal, something a passer-by says to whoever’s with him. But it’s still a slur.”

Said Cong: “The prejudice, I think, is very subtle--just by the look of the people or sometimes passing by and shouting a few words. But discrimination--I don’t think so. I haven’t heard about any of that.”

Duong said, however, that among many local Vietnamese, there is an assumption of discrimination because “the feeling of prejudice is there.”

“I can imagine some Vietnamese people--those who are not very Westernized or are very traditional--would not (complain) about it,” she said.

By and large, those living in Westminster, Garden Grove and Santa Ana, where Orange County’s Vietnamese population is concentrated, did not perceive as much prejudice as those living elsewhere.

Women perceived more prejudice than men, and younger Vietnamese reported more racial insults than those over 34. But the perception of prejudice did not vary with income.

There has been public discussion, joined by the head of the U.S. Justice Department’s civil rights division, that colleges and universities may be discriminating against Asian students, which as a group have excelled academically in this country.

But asked whether “Vietnamese and white students with the same grades have equal chances of being admitted to colleges and universities,” 80% of the Vietnamese surveyed in the Times Orange County Poll said yes.

Duong had her own feelings about the strength of that response, however.

“When I talk to parents, they fear that might change,” she said. The proportion of Asian students on popular campuses is sometimes so great “that we fear it may trigger discrimination.” (Last semester, Asians constituted 30% of the enrollment at UC Irvine, 17.5% at UCLA, 16% at Cal State Fullerton and 15% at Cal State Long Beach.)

Nearly eight of every 10 families write to relatives still in Vietnam, according to the poll, and these families are strongest in their condemnation of recent reductions in Vietnamese immigration quotas and their approval of renewed ties between the United States and Vietnam.

Asked whether resuming diplomatic ties with Vietnam would have a good or bad effect on the Vietnamese in the United States, those interviewed were divided almost evenly. Thirty-two percent foresaw a good effect, 31% a bad one. Twelve percent thought there would be no effect.

If travel to Vietnam was permitted by the U.S. government, 44% of those surveyed said they thought they would visit Vietnam, but 49% said they would not.

At present, such travel is forbidden by the United States, but Vietnamese from America are traveling there in growing numbers, said Frank A. Sieverts, spokesman for the Senate Foreign Relations Committee staff.

“For the record, there is no plan to normalize,” Sieverts said in an interview last week. “But any objective observer would say within a year or two that it would seem likely there will be movement toward normalization.”

Vietnamese traditions continue to be strong in the immigrant community here, the poll shows.

“The survey indicates that the Vietnamese community, by and large, hangs onto the traditions and customs of Vietnam,” Baldassare said. “We found that the more recent residents were even more strongly tied to tradition. But even among Vietnamese who had been in the country for some time, they still were very tied to past customs.

“One reason, we believe, is so many were forced to leave Vietnam. They brought with them a culture they didn’t want to leave.”

Sixty-one percent of those interviewed said their families “very much” adhered to Vietnamese customs and traditions, and another 35% adhered “somewhat”--a total of 96%.

“They are more protective because they are refugees and were forced to leave their country and come here, unlike Koreans and other cultures who came for a better life,” said Gene Awakuni, a UC Irvine psychologist in the counseling center and an instructor in Asian-American psychology. “You have some who would like to be repatriated, and I see many of them clinging tenaciously to the older, traditional values. . . .”

Nonetheless, almost half (47%) of those surveyed said children in their families are not expected to marry someone who is Vietnamese.

One of those surveyed--Loan Tran, 47, an aerospace electronics technician from Santa Ana--said Vietnamese people expected their way of life to change in America over the generations. But it is happening much faster than expected, Tran said, and he is very worried about his five sons and daughters, the youngest of whom is 18.

“We’re very proud of our children. They are learning a lot,” Tran said, “but they have adopted a lot of bad habits from school.

“We expect the children to have more freedom here. But the children come home late at night. When they talk to their parents, they don’t give the respect they are supposed to show.

“I tell my children to respect the parent, the President, the teacher, but they don’t have an attitude like that. They earn some money from a part-time job and spend it on whatever they want. They talk free. I don’t know how they learn that.

“Everybody laughs when I tell them. They say, ‘That’s the life style here.’ But it hurts me. It chips away my heart.”

HOW THE POLL WAS CONDUCTED

The Times Orange County Poll was conducted by Mark Baldassare & Associates of Irvine, with fieldwork by Discovery Research Group. The survey of 400 Vietnamese adults was conducted January 21-26 on weekend days and weekday nights. Interviews were conducted in both English and Vietnamese. An equal number of adult men and women were interviewed. The households were randomly selected throughout Orange County from telephone listings of common Vietnamese names. The sample was weighted so that the results reflect the age and geographic distribution of Vietnamese households in Orange County. The margin of error for a sample of this size is 5 % at the 95 % confidence level.

HIGHLIGHTS OF THE TIMES ORANGE COUNTY POLL Lowering the Refugee Quota Recently, the Vietnamese refugee quota was decreased so that more Soviet refugees can immigrate to the U.S. Do you favor or oppose this action? Favor: 20% Oppose: 54% Don’t Know: 26% By Years in U.S.

Favor Oppose Don’t Know 0-5 years 9% 64% 27% 6 or more 22 51 27

Future Refugee Policy In the future, should the U.S. admit all Vietnamese refugees who want to come here, or should the U.S. continue to restrict the numbers? Admit All: 52% Restrict: 20% Don’t Know: 28% Diplomatic Ties with Vietnam If diplomatic ties were re-established with Vietnam, would this have a good effect, a bad effect or no effect on the Vietnamese in the U.S.?

Good Bad No Don’t Effect Effect Effect Know Total 32% 31% 12% 25%

Travel to Vietnam A majority of men and of those over 35 do not think they or their family members would visit Vietnam if the two governments permitted. However, a majority of women and of those between 18 and 34 said they would consider travel to Vietnam. If travel were allowed between the U.S. and Vietnam, do you think that you or your family members would visit Vietnam or not?

Yes No Don’t Know Total 44% 49% 7% By Sex Men 37 57 6 Women 52 41 7 By Age 18-34 51 43 6 35 or Older 32 60 8

Contact with Vietnam Does your household telephone or write to friends and relatives who live in Vietnam or not? Yes: 76% No: 24% Quality of Life Vietnamese feel better about the quality of life in Orange County than a cross section of Orange Countians polled last year. How would you describe the quality of life in Orange County? Are things going very well, somewhat well or badly? TOTAL VIETNAMESE Very Well: 54% Somewhat Well: 42% Badly: 4% ORANGE COUNTY* Very Well: 35% Somewhat Well: 50% Badly: 15% * From 1988 Orange County Annual Survey. General Prejudice How much prejudice is there against Vietnamese people in Orange County?

A Lot Some A Little None Total 23% 39% 22% 16%

Types of Discrimination Have you or anyone in your household ever been the targets of racial insults or threats because you are Vietnamese?

Yes No Total 17% 83%

Have you or anyone in your household ever been denied housing because you are Vietnamese?

Yes No Total 5% 95%

Have you or anyone in your household ever been refused service at a store, restaurant or other public place because you are Vietnamese?

Yes No Total 6% 94%

Have you or anyone in your household ever been denied a job because you are Vietnamese?

Yes No Total 9% 91%

Throughout this report, percentages may not add up to 100 because of rounding. Source: Times Orange County Poll PROBLEMS IN THE COMMUNITY Most Serious Problem Considering all the issues, what do you think is the most serious problem facing the Vietnamese people in Orange County today? Gangs and Crime: 41 Assimilation: 16 Jobs: 11 Discrimination: 8 Schools: 5 Housing: 4 Other Issues: 6 No Problems: 9 Gangs and Crime How much of a problem are gangs and violent crimes for the Vietnamese people living in Orange County?

Big No Problem Somewhat Problem Total 40% 47% 13% By Sex Men 31 54 14 Women 50 39 11

Throughout this report, percentages may not add up to 100 because of rounding. Source: Times Orange County Poll