From Top Cop to Talk Jock : How serious is Daryl Gates about his new job? Some say too serious. He shrugs off the critics--as usual

The unabashedly conservative talk-show host misses a golden opportunity to nail his outspoken guest from the American Civil Liberties Union.

In a discussion of President Bush’s appointments to the federal bench, the ACLU representative complains about the lack of minority representation. When the host asks if she doesn’t consider Clarence Thomas a member of a minority, she blurts out, “He certainly looks that way, but he doesn’t act like one.”

The host lets the remark pass. It’s a caller who later goes for the jugular: “Who are you to say what a minority member should act like?”

The host smoothes things over and relations remain cordial. Though they are on opposing sides of the ideological fence, their debate remains restrained.

This is surprising in that the talk station is KFI-AM (640), which touts itself on billboards as providing “unzipped talk radio” and purports to be more controversial and daring than its competitors.

It is even more surprising because the talk-show host is none other than the irascible former Los Angeles police chief, Daryl F. Gates.

Can this congenial fellow really be the outspoken career cop who over the years delivered such inflammatory one-liners as “casual drug users ought to be taken out and shot” and the comment, in the course of a discussion about the chokehold technique, that the arteries and veins of black people “do not open up as fast as they do on normal people”?

Indeed, the distinctive Gates rhetoric was back in the news 11 days ago when he said at a press conference after the release of the Webster Commission report analyzing what went wrong in the handling of the Los Angeles riots that “we should have blown a few heads off.”

But little of that shooting-from-the-lip attitude comes through on his radio show, which abruptly premiered Sept. 30 in the wake of KFI’s surprise firing of popular host Tom Leykis. Gates is now heard weekdays from 3 to 6 p.m.

“I found him to be much warmer and much less antagonistic than I had expected,” said Ramona Ripston, executive director of the ACLU, the guest who made the Thomas remark. “I’ve had a lot tougher time on other talk shows. I certainly thought the sparks would fly. I thought it would be a much angrier exchange. He was rather charming and pleasant, and that came as a surprise.”

Los Angeles City Councilman Zev Yaroslavsky, another political foe during Gates’ reign at the Police Department, came away from his appearance on the show with a similar reaction.

“He’s too nice,” Yaroslavsky said. “As a broadcaster he needs to be the same as he was toward me as a councilman. If he’s mean-spirited and confrontational, that will sell more commercials. When he had me on his show he was so effusive in his praise that I worried for my political career.”

Some listeners are worrying about their boredom capacity, complaining that Gates is so polite and non-combative, he’s dull.

“I’d like to fight with you, but you don’t provoke me, Chief,” said a caller from San Diego named Jeff. “I guess it’s too late to give you some career advice, but I don’t think you should have given up the day job. I really don’t think you have the transferable skills.”

Unfazed by such slings and arrows, Gates, 66, says he’s simply being himself.

“One of my hopes with this show is to let people know Daryl Gates is not necessarily the guy whose image was built by the media, particularly the Los Angeles Times,” Gates said. “If you talk to almost anybody who knows me, the first thing they say is, ‘He’s a nice guy.’ ”

Even opponents like Yaroslavsky agree that the real Gates is substantially different from the one the public has come to know from the news media.

“I was never a fan of his, but most people don’t know him the way he is,” Yaroslavsky said. “His sound bites belie his true personality. He’s basically a low-key, non-offensive type of personality who does not easily get provoked and is a bureaucrat’s bureaucrat. He’s a nice guy who I don’t think likes confrontation very much and doesn’t have strong ideological beliefs about anything. He’s basically a right of center, middle-of-the-road type of individual. I think you’re finding out who the real Daryl Gates is now.”

Gates is the first to acknowledge that he is not a radio professional: “I listen to my voice sometimes and I think, ‘God, that’s a teeny voice.’ It’s certainly not the announcer’s big baritone voice.”

At a press conference the day after he went on the air, Gates confessed to a group of reporters: “I don’t know what I’m doing. I’m not skilled in this craft. What you get is just me, and hopefully that will be enough for KFI.”

That, in fact, is exactly what KFI had in mind.

“We hired him because of his 43 years of really amazing life experience, for the stories behind those really outrageous statements,” said KFI Program Director David Hall.

General Manager Howard Neal has offered no official explanation for why Gates’ predecessor was dismissed except to say that Leykis’ career was “going in one direction and we were going in another.” Speculation among station insiders is that Leykis, who made more than $300,000 a year, wanted a substantial raise. Leykis also was conducting a rather public job search, which may have further irked his bosses.

Neal said he and Hall came up with the idea to contact Gates about taking over after “a brainstorming session.” The former police chief had filled in for the station’s evening host, Barbara Whiteside, for three days in August.

“Daryl was the most exciting, high-profile person available in the market,” Neal said. “You may question the strategy, the moves that we’re doing, but at the same time we get a lot of reaction from all of this and that’s what we really want from talk radio. We’re not looking to get people to agree with everything we do; we’re looking to get people talking.”

The reaction, Neal said, has been mixed: “At first people didn’t like him. It really takes some time to be able to get comfortable with him, to accept him.” Hall said that initially about 80% of the response was negative; now it’s only about 20%.

“We get a lot of calls from people who say, ‘I’m glad you have this guy on the radio because, if nothing else, we can see the real him,’ ” Hall said. “They also comment, ‘Gosh, he’s totally different from what we expected.’ ”

They also believe that he’ll improve with more experience. “He’s not a broadcaster,” Hall said. “We’re working fast and furiously to make him as comfortable as possible on the air. I’m encouraging him to open up more, to elaborate more.”

“He’s very well-prepared,” said Gates’ producer, Marc Germaine. “He’s an amazingly quick study. And he’s a very nice guy. He seemed like a real tough guy, but he’s very accommodating and takes suggestion very well. . . . I think people expect him to come on the air and say things about drug users and lesbians and hear nothing but that. But he’s much more than that. Fascist was a word I heard bandied around quite a bit in relation to him. But the more you find out about him, the less conservative you think he is.”

As testimony to Gates’ cool head, Germaine recounted the time Gates was interviewing Councilman Michael Woo and a technical snafu occurred in which technicians were yelling in his headset. Germaine said that Gates was able to carry on as if nothing was wrong.

KFI has spent considerable time promoting Gates, proclaiming throughout the day that it has “Rush Limbaugh in the mornings and the chief in the afternoon.” The station also appears to be having fun with him. When the show resumes after news, traffic and commercial breaks, listeners hear one of several irreverent lead-ins of a nature rarely heard on other KFI programs.

“Hey, Chief, can you fix my ticket?” says one. Another: “Will somebody please yell at the chief? He doesn’t think you like him.”

“If you listen very carefully, you can hear his trigger finger tapping on the desk,” goes still another.

Often Gates comments on the spots, making for lighthearted, often self-deprecating segues into the topic at hand. “And that trigger finger is trying hard to figure out which buttons to push,” he tells listeners. “And not very well.”

Nevertheless, speculation continues in the radio industry that Gates’ presence at KFI is only temporary. Rumors have been circulating that a pair of New Jersey radio personalities known for their tax-revolt stunts have been hired for on-air positions at KFI. One scenario tossed around is that KFI brought Gates in to take the heat from former Leykis fans, and Gates will be let go to make room for John Cobel and Ken Champeau when the controversy subsides.

Neal denies the rumors. And Gates denies that he took the job to gain publicity before announcing his entry into the mayor’s race. “I don’t think I’m going to throw my hat in the ring,” he said on the air recently. “But I’m enjoying talking to all the contenders. I’m having fun. I’ve been in city government for 43 years. That’s enough. I always say, ‘Never say never,’ though I have absolutely no interest.”

“I’m here,” Gates said, “as long as KFI wants me.”

As long as his broadcasting stint lasts, Gates--who retired as police chief in June after a tumultuous year that included the Rodney G. King beating controversy, the riots and the prolonged debate over when he would step down--said he sees no need to model himself after the loud, obnoxious variety of talk-show hosts.

“I won’t be outrageous,” he said in an interview during a break in the show one day. “I’m not going to yell at people. That’s not my style. I’m going to treat people with dignity, even though there are some that don’t deserve to be treated with dignity. I will take you on, I’ll argue with you, but I don’t have that flair for the dramatic. . . . I understand my limitations, and I think I have a sense of humor about myself.

“I can’t be anything other than myself. I guarantee I won’t try to imitate (Leykis). He was a skilled craftsman, but I couldn’t imitate him. I’m a cop, with 43 years experience in government. I know about government. I know about local, state and federal issues. And if that doesn’t make for stimulating talk radio and the ratings fall, I’m sure KFI will let me know and I’ll go on to something else.”

Gates likes to do shows about politics (“Clinton scares me to death” and “Perot bothers me because he’s a quitter”) and the excesses of sex and violence on television. But what he prefers-- and seems most comfortable with--are the things he knows best: discussions of police work, crime and city government. His favorite topic seems to be his assessment of his performance as police chief.

When callers hit hard, Gates is honest and straightforward in his response.

Recently a caller accused him of “thumbing his nose at Mayor Bradley” through the lack of immediate police response to the civil disturbances in the wake of the Rodney G. King verdict. Gates considered the accusation.

“Maybe you’re right, maybe I was thumbing my nose at him a little bit, but maybe I have good reason to thumb my nose at him,” he said, agreeing that the riots “really made the city look bad.”

On a typical day Gates prepares for his show by reading several newspapers: USA Today, the New York Times and local newspapers such as the Daily News and even the Los Angeles Times. Then, each morning, he talks by phone with producer Germaine.

Sometimes Gates suggests topics, but more frequently his producer will come up with ideas.

“This is a pretty impromptu type of operation,” Gates explained. “You kind of mull things over each day. I want to be timely. I want to be topical. KFI is giving me pointers.”

Some sample topics he has tackled over the past month include the Webster Commission report; the Christopher Commission report and the travails suffered by those it labeled “problem officers”; gays in the military and in the Police Department; the character flaw in those who are “quitters”; interviews with the declared mayoral candidates, and the presidential election, including one show investigating Democrat Bill Clinton’s character and the allegations made by Gennifer Flowers.

Shortly after his program premiered, Gates got a letter from a country singer named Steve Vaus, who claimed that his song “We Must Take America Back” was being “banned” from local airwaves because it too openly embraces traditional values.

“The music directors said, ‘We won’t play it because we don’t agree with its themes,’ ” Vaus said.

Among the lyrics:

We need prayer in schools and more things

“Made in the U.S.A.”

It’s the least we can do for the red, white and blue.

We must take America back.

Gates seized the opportunity, contacted the San Diego singer and booked him for his show. He played the song repeatedly, lavishing it with praise.

“I’m not a music critic, but I like the words,” Gates said. “Sounds pretty good to me.”

He contrasted it to “those rotten tunes” of rappers Sister Souljah and Ice-T, whose songs have come under fire for their violent lyrics.

An angry caller named Tim excoriated Vaus, saying he wrote a boring song.

“Quit whining about traditional family values,” Tim said, his voice raising to a yell. “You guys don’t have the corner on that market. I don’t think that song was banned. That song is very boring. It’s very trite and it’s stupid.”

Gates came back with: “We like controversy. . . . I don’t care. I love your song. We must take America back. That’s one of the reasons I’m here. If you disagree, call in here, you’re probably going to get on faster than those who agree with us.”

Gates admits that he has “a big mouth” but a far-from-riveting broadcast style.

“It’s possible to some people I’m dull,” he allowed. “I’ve never been dull. People didn’t really call me dull as chief, but maybe as a talk-show host I am dull. . . . I think there’s a place for silliness, but I think there’s also a place for serious issues, and that’s what I’m trying to deal with. I’m not here to entertain anyone. I’m here because I think I have something to say about many issues that are of concern.”

He is hopeful that the force of his personality and his “enthusiasm for life and faith in people” outweigh his on-air awkwardness.

Some listeners say they find this new, humbler version of Gates refreshing.

“I’ve got to say I’ve never been a big fan of yours in the past,” said a caller named Scott. “But listening to you in the past weeks, you seem to be pretty balanced and straightforward with your opinions, even though I disagree with a lot of them.”

A caller named Paul told Gates: “I want to congratulate you for being a gentleman above and beyond the call of duty on this show. I’m just amazed at how patient you are.”

Some of Gates’ former political foes also have a favorable reaction to his new job.

“I’m glad he has something to do,” said Stanley K. Sheinbaum, Los Angeles Police Commission president and a longtime critic of Gates. “I don’t see anything wrong with his having a platform. In fact, I sort of like his having a platform. I think more people will have a chance to know what he’s really like, and I think it would be good for everybody to know who the real Daryl Gates is because he left such a bad impression. Nobody knows whether that was the real Daryl Gates or not.”

And Michael Woo, who was the first City Council member to call for Gates’ resignation, said, “I only wish he had started this career earlier. I think some of his hotheaded comments are more appropriate for a talk-show host than for a chief of police.”

Woo said he hoped that Gates would take this opportunity to “try to heal the wounds in the city”:

“I just hope he doesn’t use this in a way to prey upon people’s fears or that he doesn’t become a divisive force through the airwaves, as he did as chief of police. I know he can still influence many people out there who look up to him on the basis of his past role as chief, and I think he has the opportunity to surprise people by trying to calm them down instead of making outrageous comments. If that were the new Daryl Gates, then I think the whole city could benefit.”

Gates doesn’t seem to have any such grandiose plans. “I’d like to move people, change people’s minds, energize them, stimulate them,” he said. “It’s not like becoming chief of police, where you have specific goals you want to accomplish. I just want it to be as interesting as I can make it.”

As police chief, Gates was frequently at odds with the news media. Now, one could say, he has joined their ranks.

Gates doesn’t exactly see it that way.

“I’m not part of the media,” he said. “I do have a microphone, it’s true, but I’m still independent. In fact, I’m still the adversary to a large extent that I was before. I think this is going to give me a unique opportunity to point out the mistakes made in the media every day.”

So, is this his long-awaited chance to get back at the journalists he felt misrepresented him, after all the abuse that has been heaped on him? “Just the Los Angeles Times,” he said with a smile.

Indeed, he is looking forward to serving as an alternative voice to the press, saying he is eager to point out the “untruths” in stories about the Police Department and particularly stories in The Times, which he claims has long had it in for him.

“I look at the L.A. Times and it’s junk,” he said. “My wife says I mumble to myself as I read it. I think an awful lot of Times reporting is skewed.”

Gates said he is not worried about having walked into the most competitive radio market in the country--or rather, he said, it may simply be that he has no conception of the high-stakes world of talk radio.

“I really have no sense of the competition,” Gates said, adding that he has no idea who he’s up against at KFI’s main competitor, talk-station KABC-AM (790). “I don’t even know who’s on. Maybe it’s a form of arrogance, but I don’t think so. I have no worries. This is not a life-or-death situation for me. It’s not necessarily meat and potatoes on the table. I don’t need it to pay the rent. It’s not something I have to do either artistically or from any other standpoint. . . . I’m not a radio talk-show host. I’m not skilled in the craft, and I’m not going to take training. I’m a cop. I just want to have fun.”

But Gates did say that these days he listens to other radio personalities more than he used to, namely conservative Rush Limbaugh, KFI’s resident psychologist Dr. Laura Schlessinger and KABC veteran Michael Jackson, who Gates said has always treated him fairly and honestly.

“Before I took this job I very rarely listened to other radio personalities,” Gates said. “I just didn’t have the time. Now I admit I do listen a little more. I try to listen to Rush Limbaugh in the morning. He’s great. He’s a special talent. He’s carved out a character for himself. There’s only one Rush and probably should be only one Rush. Rush is a real pro. He really knows what he’s doing. I don’t anticipate ever getting to that point.”