2 Sides Clash Over Proposed Ban on Scouts : Schools: Religious fundamentalists object to the plan, which would keep Scouting programs out of classrooms because of the organization’s opposition to homosexuals.

Fundamental beliefs in Christianity clashed with strongly held positions regarding tolerance Tuesday as San Diego city schools trustees heard public testimony on a proposal to ban Boy Scout programs for students during class time.

The proposal by Supt. Tom Payzant results from national Boy Scout policy forbidding gay men to serve as leaders--contrary to the school district’s policy forbidding discrimination based on sexual orientation.

Two Boy Scout programs that are held during the mandatory school day would end July 1 under Payzant’s plan. Scouts will still be able to use city schools for troop meetings after the academic day is over because that use is specifically allowed under the state education code.

Assistant Scoutmaster Donna McCarthy said a ban is regrettable but necessary in light of her experience in fighting discrimination against women as Boy Scout troop leaders.

“The bottom line is that when ignorance . . . is allowed to continue, children are the ones who suffer,” the Pacific Beach mother, outfitted in a badge-bedecked Scout vest, told trustees Tuesday in support of Payzant. She said that until five years ago, women were prohibited from serving in any Boy Scouting position other than “just secretaries,” despite the fact that “leadership has nothing to do with gender or sexual orientation.”

Payzant spoke personally of his Boy Scout experiences in the early 1950s, saying he “was taught the values of tolerance and inclusiveness and to challenge those who engage in stereotypes and discrimination.”

“It’s ironic that I’m using what I learned as a Scout to challenge that organization now. . . . The time to discriminate is past if we really believe in” those values, Payzant said. “We can’t tolerate that kind of organization working with young people.”

But several speakers Tuesday strongly chastised Payzant and trustees for their expected approval of the proposal at the Jan. 14 board meeting.

“As prophesied in the Bible, right will become wrong and wrong will become right, and we are now witnessing those days,” said Margie Dean, one of many who cited religious doctrine to argue against the recommendation.

“I am a Christian,” Clarence Whaley, a retired teacher, said in explaining why the Boy Scout volunteers should not be kicked out of classroom programs. Whaley asserted that the proposed ban is part of a “Zionist-Jew network which is anti-Christian.”

Don Stillwell, a self-described former atheist who found God six years ago, referred to Verse 37 of Chapter 11 of the Book of Daniel in the Bible in saying that “the Antichrist is a homosexual.” (The King James version of the Bible does not correspond to Stillwell’s remarks.)

Jeffery Rosen of Pacific Beach said Payzant and gay activist groups are “putting morality on the back burner” by supporting a ban on the Boy Scouts, which bases its beliefs on a “Judeo-Christian God.” By doing so, Rosen charged, Payzant is showing “religious intolerance.”

A few speakers against the proposal emphasized the harm to children in four elementary schools in low-income areas who no longer will receive Scout instruction and who have no non-school alternatives.

“I’m appalled that we are even here discussing this,” Janet McKaye said.

But board member Ron Ottinger said the issue is “how do we treat people?” He said there are Boy Scout troop leaders, teachers, even school trustees who are gay but afraid to openly admit it unless they are given protection from discrimination under the law.

“It’s interesting that no one showed up from the Boy Scouts Council today. . . . They should have had the courage to come down and defend their view, if there is a defense of those views,” Ottinger said.

Trustee John De Beck expressed surprise that Boy Scout programs were being held during school instructional time at all. “It seems that (all of this) would be more appropriate after school,” he said.

Board member Shirley Weber was the only one to express doubts Tuesday, saying she is troubled by the possibility that the district might have to apply litmus tests--”maybe getting into a witch hunt”--to the 300 private organizations and companies that volunteer time in classrooms.

“Will we get into . . . validating every group that comes into our schools, to be classroom tutors, et cetera,on a regular basis. . . . This policy is not a slam-dunk for me at this point.”

Payzant told Weber that if a case arose where an organization or company was violating district policy in its school dealings, “we would have to address it.”