It Took Determination, Talent to Keep Careers a Cut Above

Anne V. Coates and Dede Allen may not be household names to average moviegoers, but film buffs know the two as legendary editors of style, strength and sophistication. They began their careers in the 1940s, edited some of the greatest films of the 20th century and continue to work with Hollywood’s top directors.

The British-born Coates won the Oscar for editing David Lean’s 1962 masterpiece “Lawrence of Arabia,” and also received nominations for “Becket,” “The Elephant Man,” “In the Line of Fire” and “Out of Sight.” Her latest film is “Erin Brockovich.”

Allen worked her way up from messenger to apprentice editor, assistant editor and sound editor before receiving solo editing credit on Robert Wise’s tight 1959 thriller “Odds Against Tomorrow.” Over the next four decades she edited such classics as “The Hustler,” “Bonnie and Clyde,” “Serpico,” “Dog Day Afternoon” and “Reds,” receiving Oscar nominations for the latter two. Her latest film is Curtis Hanson’s “Wonder Boys,” which opened last month.

Allen, a great-grandmother, and Coates, mother of film directors Anthony Hickox and James Hickox and film editor Emma Hickox, are longtime friends. The lively and funny duo, both in their 70s, recently sat down together at a conference room at Paramount to talk about their experiences.

Question: Is it as much fun to be an editor now than even 10 years ago?

Coates: I don’t think it is as much fun. I don’t know how Dede feels.

Allen: There is more pressure, and the pressure on the director. . . .

Coates: And there is so much money involved. Everybody’s job is hanging on the picture’s success, so it makes it very difficult. It lands with us, really. You got to get it done.

Allen: It’s always a rush [to complete a film]. They push up the date, they got an opening and someone else fell out. It’s very, very competitive.

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Q: Because of the added pressure, has your relationship with directors changed? Are they more involved in the editing?

Coates: I do the [first cut] the way I see it. I don’t show the director choices. Steven [Soderbergh] doesn’t take long [to complete a picture]. He comes from a more modern school. But he could take longer if he wanted to. We ran a cut after four weeks [of completion] on “Erin Brockovich.”

Allen: I used to have alternatives. I had what I called quick and dirty dupes where I would make a dupe if I had something that might work. I would put it aside and I would never show it to a director. I always want to work with powerful directors [like Hanson].

Coates: I always do.

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Q: Both of you have worked primarily with famous and acclaimed directors such as Robert Wise, David Lean, Sidney Lumet, Wolfgang Petersen, Warren Beatty and Arthur Penn. Would you turn down a young first-time director who came out of MTV or commercials if they approached you?

Allen: If it was a script I was interested in. . . .

Coates: I like working with [young directors].

Allen: [Editor] Mia Goldman told me last week about working with a young, new director-writer. It was a very exciting experience. He was so excited about having her. That is the kind of experience you want.

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Q (to Allen): Didn’t you begin your career at Columbia?

Allen: I started out as a messenger, but I couldn’t get into pictures. . . . I got in finally because the head of sound said to the head of the sound effects department, “We are going to hire her because she is such a pest.”

When I came in it was 1943. It was right at the end of the Depression and during the war. Women were not getting in unless they were already in or married to editors.

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Q: Anne, did you begin in sound effects like Dede?

Coates: I went straight into [editing]. The thing was, in England there weren’t many things at the time women could do. There was script girl, secretary and editing, really. A couple of women were in the art department.

Allen: My experience is that when I was on “Reds” in England [in the early ‘80s] it was very male chauvinistic toward women.

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Q: Anne, what was your first big break?

Coates: “Pickwick Papers” [1954], and it was director Noel Langley. The editor I was working with was Clive Donner, who became a director. He was a great friend. He was asked to do it and couldn’t, so I said, “Why don’t you put my name up?” . . . I had done some assembly cutting, but I really hadn’t cut anything.

Allen: But you had started as an assistant?

Coates: Yes. I worked in religious films nearly a year before I got into a proper studio. The first picture I worked on, they didn’t like the work the editor was doing. It was a Mickey Powell and Emeric Pressburger production, “The End of the River.” Their editor, Reggie Mills, took over and for some reason or another he didn’t want the first assistant to work with him. He wanted me. He was an editor of the old school. I stood by his side and I didn’t open my mouth.

I learned so much. We were great friends in the end, but once I was five minutes late back from lunch. I had been playing French cricket and I was a little grubby and he tore into me. He said, “If you are really interested in this business you don’t come back late, go off and get dirty and play. You are here standing by me clean.” Nowadays, assistants would get up and walk out if you talked to them like that.

Allen: Well, sometimes you have to have a talk with them.

Coates: But not like that.

Allen: But you learn from those experiences, don’t you, Annie?

Coates: Yes. I went to this interview at Pinewood Studios for this second assistant’s job. They asked if I could do all sorts of things like lay tracks and do optical stuff. None of which I could do, so a friend of mine took me in for a week and gave me a crash course.

Allen: There were no schools in those days. There was a film course down at USC.

Coates: I worked for an editor who wanted to go home early to his garden, particularly when it was getting dark in England around 4 p.m. A lovely old guy. He would say, “You finish a scene.” This is how I got into editing [as the major editor].

Once I did a very, very naughty thing which an editor’s assistant should never do. My editor was away directing the second unit. The director said, “I would like to see that scene cut tomorrow by lunch time.” So I didn’t say anything, I just cut it as an editor.

Allen: You didn’t ask your editor?

Coates: The editor was a little miffed. I think I was a pretty cheeky person.

Allen: We were cheeky.

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Q: Dede, with “Dog Day Afternoon,” only the title sequence was set to music, Elton John’s “Amoreena.” Can you talk about that?

Allen: That was very interesting. Sidney [Lumet] never wanted a score. We had this footage that was shot in hot weather as a test. It was just sitting there. They were having all of these rehearsals, so I had nothing to do. So I just put this little thing together, and I thought it might be good for a title sequence. Of course, it was without music. Having been in sound effects, I think I have a style. So I put this song on. It was just temporary, but Sidney fell in love with it.

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Q: I know this is a loaded question, but do you have a favorite project you’ve worked on?

Allen: That’s a hard question.

Coates: “Lawrence of Arabia,” of course, but there are smaller pictures, even a small picture I did in England called “The Bofors Gun” for Jack Gold. It’s never been shown here.

Allen: They are like your children. Each has different things. There are only two pictures I ever worked on where the strain was kind of heavy because of the director. Maybe he didn’t like my being honest. I was always known as someone who was very honest.

Coates: Back in the old days--I am better at it now--when they would start advertising and taking [the film] away from me, I would feel [depressed].

Allen: There is a major separation anxiety at the end of a picture.