For Both, It’s Been Quite a Ride

One is the oldest best actor nominee in Academy Award history. The other is arguably the biggest--in size. Yet, while Richard Farnsworth, nominated for best actor in “The Straight Story,” and Michael Clarke Duncan, nominated for best supporting actor in “The Green Mile,” might seem like the “Odd Couple” of this year’s Oscars, they are remarkably similar.

On the big screen, both men play characters who exude warmth and a homespun wisdom that changes the lives around them--Duncan as the gentle giant John Coffey, imprisoned for a double child murder he did not commit, and Farnsworth as Alvin Straight, an elderly war veteran who drives a lawn mower to see his ailing brother.

The two actors, who never met before the Oscars brought them together, recently sat down for a conversation at the Four Seasons Hotel. The 79-year-old Farnsworth, who when not making films runs a cattle ranch in Lincoln, N.M., was a stuntman for 40 years before he found prominence in 1978 in “Comes a Horseman,” for which he was nominated as best supporting actor. Duncan, 43, grew up on the South Side of Chicago and once worked as a celebrity bodyguard before he found fame in “Armageddon.”

Hobbled by a bad hip, Farnsworth arrived on a cane. Duncan was still shaking his head about how the loss of his keys nearly made him miss the recent academy nominee luncheon.

Michael Clarke Duncan: I’m telling you, that movie [“The Straight Story”] had me in tears and I am so grateful to finally meet you, sir.

Richard Farnsworth: Well, bless your heart. And I feel the same about your performance.

Question: Richard, so you’ve seen “The Green Mile”?

Farnsworth: Yes, I’ve seen it twice. [To Duncan] Well, you’re a big man and you really came through [in the movie] like maybe you really had some tough times in your life.

Duncan: Oh, I have. I have. Yes. Drawing off a lot of personal experience.

Farnsworth: Well, me too. I had it rough as a kid. I tried to identify with Alvin Straight.

Q: Michael, did you identify with John Coffey?

Duncan: Nobody understood him [Coffey] by looking at him. You fear him right away. . . . And he wasn’t the one you had to fear. It was “Wild Bill” that was the crazy one. John was the nice one, but just by looking at him, you’d think, “Oh, man, this guy is ruthless.” It’s like you have to identify with what you’re doing because if you don’t, you’re not going to do a good job.

I identified with John Coffey in the fact that we both had troubled times, we are both big, and by looking at us, you would be fearful of your life if you met us in a dark alley.

I got on an elevator one time, it was late at night, and I was coming from a friend’s house, and the elevator doors open. I had my hat pulled down, I had my scarf on and you could only see my eyes. I’m standing there [with my arms crossed]. I was cold. It’s like 12:30 at night and the elevator doors open and this lady is standing there, and she looked at me up and down. I’m not even thinking of her. And she looked up and looked around and she stepped back from the elevator and the elevator doors close. She was not getting on that elevator with me looking like that. All she saw was this big, black hulking figure and she’s like, “I’m not taking no chances with that guy.” But really, I’m the nicest person but not just by looking. So that’s what I took from John Coffey.

[Turning to Farnsworth] You were Alvin Straight. I mean, every time I hear that [name] now, I’m going to think of Richard Farnsworth. But when you were sitting there telling that war story about that guy who was [shot], I’m like . . . My mother says, “Are you OK?” I said, “You just don’t know. I’m there with him. I can see him doing it. He feels bad about what he did and he never told anybody.” It was just so emotional, him going on this journey by himself.

How fast was your [lawn mower] going? About 30 [mph]? Cause it looked like it was going really slow.

Farnsworth: The most I could get out of it was 5 mph and on a hill, 3 1/2.

Duncan: Oh, man!

Q: It’s unusual that you both got nominated for some of your earliest films as far as principal roles are concerned.

Farnsworth: I think he and I are very close, because that was his first role of any consequence, and “Comes a Horseman,” I got a nomination for that. It just goes to show you, by gosh, there is a lot of talent out there if you give it a chance.

I think this film that I did might give some of the older guys a chance. There is a lot of talent in 70- [and] 80-year-old guys and maybe somebody will say, “Look, let’s give the old guys a chance.” I bet, somebody, maybe somebody like Mary Sweeney [who co-wrote “Straight Story”] will come up with something for older men.

Q: What about African Americans? You don’t get a ton of roles to choose from.

Duncan: No, and the roles that we do get are sometimes the same type of roles. You’re either a drug dealer or in prison. And, when you start out acting, you take the position, “I’ve got to get my foot in the door, I’m doing a movie.” But as you get up there, then you say, “Well, I don’t have to be a drug dealer, I don’t have to be in jail all the time. I can be a lawyer. I can be somebody’s father. I can be a coach. I can be something positive.”

That’s what I’m trying to bring. I’m trying to bring a lot of positive roles to Michael Clarke Duncan, period, as an actor. I’m not beyond doing anything. I’m trying to do it all. I don’t want you looking at me and saying, “OK, I’m putting you as the gangster.” I don’t want you looking at me like that. I’m sure Richard feels the same way. You don’t want people looking at you the same way all the time.

Q: You both came to acting in sort of a circuitous route. Richard, you were a stuntman and, Michael, you were a ditch digger and a bodyguard.

Duncan: My mother wanted to be an actress, but nobody ever pushed her into it, so she, in turn, pushed me into it. Had my mother been an actress, I think she would have been one of the greatest actresses out here in Hollywood, but nobody ever knew that.

Q: Richard, how do you see yourself as a character? Are you just playing Richard Farnsworth, or do you become other people?

Farnsworth: I think I’m naturally doing myself. My agent [Diane Davis] that I’ve had 16 years has really been good about picking spots I can handle. I couldn’t do a film about country lawyers or a physicist or something like that. She’s turned down scripts that they think I can do this or I can do that. Well, I can’t. I’m pretty limited. I think the rural parts that I’ve done are the best. I’ve played a couple of judges, but I thought I was terrible in them. They wanted me because somebody knew who I was. But if I can keep doing the outdoor films--I was a cowboy--if I can find those kind of films, I can probably still keep working, even though I’m [almost] 80 years old.

Duncan: So, you’re a real cowboy?

Farnsworth: Oh, yeah. I rodeoed. I rode broncs. I rodeoed from 1938 to 1950, although I was a stuntman. But you don’t work steady. Bunch of us would get together and go to Cheyenne or Calgary or New York. I was a pretty good bareback rider. In fact, I made enough to make it down the road.

Duncan: I didn’t know that. Did you actually rope?

Farnsworth: Oh, yeah.

Duncan: And hop off the horse?

Farnsworth: I bulldogged. Twisted steers down.

Duncan: I love to watch that, man! I watch that on ESPN all the time, man! I watch when they ride, what do they call that thing, the big horns?

Farnsworth: Longhorns. I raise those on the ranch.

Duncan: You’re kidding, man! Now, where is your ranch at? In Texas?

Farnsworth: It’s in Lincoln, N.M., in Billy the Kid country. I’ve raised longhorns for 10 years.

Duncan: I love longhorns.

Q: You were into basketball, right?

Duncan: Yeah. I was into basketball and athletics. I went out to a school that was in Oklahoma and, man, here comes these big Clydesdales, the biggest, most fabulous horses I ever seen in my life. They have these big legs and they towered over everything. I got to get up on one and ride that Clydesdale. I’ve always been interested about things like that on a farm. About how it would be to wake up at 5:30 in the morning and feed chickens. I’m a city guy. I was never out in anything like that, and that’s why it always fascinated me how guys like in the country live.

Q: What was it like growing up on the South Side of Chicago?

Duncan: Certainly weren’t no longhorns around there. No longhorns in Chicago.

My mother made it good for me because my father left when I was 5 or 6 years old. It was just my mother and my sister and myself. I remember my mother sitting down. My father had left and took all the furniture, took everything, and my mother sat us down on the bare floor and she said, “You know, things are going to be different here for a while.” And, I looked at her and the tears were coming down and she said, “Mikey, I want you to promise me that you’ll always do your best and when you get of age, that you’ll go off and do whatever it is you want to do and don’t treat anybody wrong. Don’t treat anybody unfairly.” So, when I got of age, I wanted to be an actor. She is the one who said, “Go out to Hollywood, try your best, and become that actor.”

Q: Do you guys have a theory of acting?

Duncan: I think it has to come from your heart.

Farnsworth: [To Duncan] You sure proved that you could act. I told ‘em, “That man’s living this part.”

Duncan: Yes. My tears. Everything. I mean, if you don’t believe in something, you’re not going to make it. When I heard Dustin Hoffman call my name as a nominee for best supporting actor, I saw everybody’s face who said, “You’re stupid for going to Hollywood. You’re going to be a bum. You’re worthless.” I didn’t even have to say anything. By [Hoffman] saying, “Michael Clarke Duncan,” it was the greatest thing that ever happened in my life and it will always go before my name--Academy Award nominee. That’s it. That’s it.

Farnsworth: I had kind of a high squeaky voice. I was a good stuntman but I didn’t have anything but a blah face. And a director named Jack English tried to give me a couple of lines in a Roy Rogers picture in the ‘40s. Stuntmen would maybe get a line or two thrown at them because they were given a Screen Actors Guild check, not an extras check, which meant you could do dialogue. . . .

Duncan: [To Farnsworth] Did you like stunt work?

Farnsworth: I loved it. I wouldn’t do anything I couldn’t walk away from. I’ve been sore and stiff, don’t get me wrong, but they never had to pack me out of there. . . . [Nowadays] they got a 6-foot pad to do a 15-foot fall, for God’s sake. It’s so high it’ll be in the shot if they don’t watch it.

Q: Michael, what was it like working for “Green Mile” director Frank Darabont?

Duncan: Frank made the work really easy. Frank was just like a monk. He had this stillness about him. He never hollered. He never got upset. He listened to you. One time, we were doing a close-up of my crying scene, and we did it literally 18 times. Frank came over to me--this was my moment, I got the tears going, I’m slobbering, all my juices are coming out--and Frank walks over to me and says, “You know, you’re doing a helluva job, but can you just turn it down 8%?” And, he taps me and walks away. And, I’m thinking, “What the hell is 8%? What am I supposed to do?” I still don’t know [what he meant] to this day.

Q: Richard, “Straight Story” director David Lynch has been known for making some pretty bizarre movies. You must have come into this one thinking, are there going to be problems?

Farnsworth: I’ve never used four-letter words. I’ve been in movies that had them, but I never used them. My agent is kind of shying away from those. When she called me, she said, “There is a big director in Hollywood named David Lynch who wants to see you about a project he thinks you’re right for.” I said, “Who’s David Lynch?” She said, “Did you see ‘The Elephant Man’?” I said, “I did, and I thought it was great.” I didn’t remember who had directed it. I talked to her and said, “I had several rumors this film isn’t like the films he’s been a-shootin’.” She said, “Well, he and I had a talk and instead of ‘God----,’ you say ‘Gol’ darn,’ and instead of ‘Son of a b’ you say ‘Son of a gun.’ ” I said, “That’s all right.” And that’s the closest I come to using profanity. And he understood that.

Q: [To Duncan] What was it like working with Tom Hanks?

Duncan: When you get a movie like “The Green Mile” and there’s Tom Hanks, two-time Academy Award winner, you’re like, “I have made it. I’m working with the best.” . . . He’s always there on time and I never ever saw him mad, even when the shooting was going to 2 and 3 and 4 in the morning. He always had a joke. He did something to me one day. I was getting ready to complain. All I had was that cover on me the whole shoot and we were in Nashville, Tenn., and it was outside and it was freezing. It got down to like 40 degrees, 35. And I told Tom, “Man, Frank is taking a long time, I am freezing.” And Tom just turned and looked at me and said, “Would you rather be back in Chicago digging those ditches?” And, at that point, I shook his hand and said, “Thank you very much, Tom.” Because I was starting to become one of those complaining actors and I forgot, “Hey, you could be digging a ditch on a cold night like this,” and I didn’t say anything else.

Q: Does receiving an Oscar nomination change you at all?

Farnsworth: I don’t think it’s changed my attitude much. It’s nice to get it.

Duncan: But if you don’t appreciate it, I think God will take it away from you.

Farnsworth: Yeah.

Duncan: If you don’t know how to treat people, it can go. It’s like a flash in the pan. With me, it happened that quickly. It’s like, blam! And, all of a sudden, you’re nominated, where two years ago, nobody knew my name. But it’s scary at the same time, too, because you don’t know what to expect.

I remember Ving Rhames gave that trophy away to Jack Lemmon. I can’t do that, so I’ll give my trophy to my mother. I might even charge her $25 a day to keep it or something. I was at the SAG awards, and they called Michael Caine and I thought they had called me. I heard “Michael,” and I thought, “Oh, my God. I thought they were going to say, ‘Michael Clarke Duncan’!” Man, I almost turned that damn table over [I was so excited].

Q: Michael, are you now more choosy about the roles you accept?

Duncan: Definitely more choosy. I’m looking for quality things. In April or May [after the Academy Awards], I’m thinking of taking a movie. But definitely not before the Oscars.

Q: Richard, you’ve been in that position. Is that the right approach he should take?

Farnsworth: [To Duncan] You’ve got the right look in your eye. You’re in the position to kind of pick your spots. Tell ‘em what you want and don’t back up. I’ve been in the business all of my life. They’ll promise you this, they’ll promise you that.

Q: Best supporting actor is a real competitive category this year.

Duncan: You know what? By Tom Cruise winning the Golden Globe and Michael Caine winning the [Screen Actors Guild] award, that means it’s open. Anybody can win [the Oscar] come the 26th. Now, if Tom Cruise had won again, I would say, “That’s OK, he’s the likely one to win it.” But it’s open now.

Duncan: [Turning to Farnsworth] That’s cool to vote for yourself, right?

Farnsworth: Yeah, I did. You’re darn right.

Duncan: I need every one I can get. [laughing]

Q: Do the ranchers back home take to you being a celebrity?

Farnsworth: They aren’t impressed with the movies.

Duncan: Oh, they’re not? That doesn’t even make a difference to them?

Farnsworth: See, we live way out in the sticks there. I have a great big satellite dish. I can get outer Siberia on that thing. TV stations I never dreamed of. Some of [the ranchers] are starting to get it too. They’re real good people, don’t get me wrong. They’ve never come up to me and said, “Oh, yeah, you’re a movie star.” You know how sometimes you get that from people? I never had that. They just treat me like I treat them.

Q: If you guys win, what will you say?

Farnsworth: My speech will be very short. I’ll only mention two people. I think I’ll keep it a secret. But I don’t go for these long speeches, all the ancestors and such. . . . I think they overdo it. They ought to have the hook like they used to and jerk them off stage after they’ve done their misery.

Duncan: You know what? I’m not going to have anything prepared, because I think you have to go from your heart, what you are feeling right then at that time. So, I might run up there and slide into second. I might do something really crazy. But there is one guy I don’t want to forget. He was the head of transportation for “The Green Mile.” He told me, “Michael, if you win, nobody has mentioned transportation in the history of the Academy Awards.” I said, “I will say your name and thanks to all the transportation guys out there.” He said, “If you do that, you will never have to worry about anything as an actor again.” . . .

The way they should do these awards, they should take the five contestants, like in your category, they should have a bull-riding contest. Whoever stays on the bull the longest wins the Academy Award.

Farnsworth: You should wrestle, and I should ride a bull! [laughing]

Q: Maybe someday they’ll cast both of you guys in a movie.

Farnsworth: That would be great.

Duncan: I would really love that. That would be one of the greatest accomplishments of my life, to work with somebody like that.

Farnsworth: Well, bless your heart.

Duncan: I mean that. You can tell he’s a good person. His heart is good, and one good person can always tell another one. I didn’t know what to expect coming here today, but when I saw him on the movie, I kind of knew he was just like that guy. . . .

Let me ask you a question? [Looks at a gold pin in the shape of a star on Farnsworth’s tie] What is that?

Farnsworth: It was an old, old star from 1855. . . . I’m an honorary Texas Ranger. Since 1961, before I got to be an actor. I have some badges made out of Mexican pesos, and one of them says 1918 and is stamped on the back. The other one is 1890.

Duncan: I got to come to your ranch one day.

Farnsworth: Boy, I’d love that. I just got 60 acres, but it’s all permanent pasture and I got a river running right through the place. I have 55 head of registered cows. Some of them I get $8,000 or $9,000 for. They are very expensive. Longhorns. . . . *