Three Ways of Looking at a Grammy

Unless you’ve been living in a cave, you probably know that female pop singers have enjoyed a high profile lately. The Lilith Fair tour, a “Girlapalooza” spearheaded by singer-songwriter Sarah McLachlan, was last summer’s biggest concert festival draw, and women in pop music are now gracing magazine covers, securing record contracts and selling albums in greater numbers than ever.

This momentum is reflected in the nominations for this year’s Grammys, which will be presented at New York’s Radio City Music Hall on Wednesday (televised by CBS at 8 p.m.). Among the most honored nominees are three women for whom 1997 was a very good year: folk-rock minstrels and Lilith alumnae Paula Cole, 29, and Shawn Colvin, 42, and fledgling nouvelle-soul star Erykah Badu, 26, who is scheduled to perform on this year’s Lilith tour.

Colvin, the honey-voiced veteran of this group, is up for three awards--record of the year, song of the year and female pop vocal, all for the wistful ballad “Sunny Came Home,” her first Top 10 single. Badu, whose delicately potent soprano and moody jazz nuances on her million-selling debut album “Baduizm” have inspired comparisons to Billie Holiday, received four nods: best new artist, best R&B; album, best R&B; song (the hypnotic hit “On & On”) and best female R&B; vocal performance. Cole, whose 1996 sophomore album “This Fire” spawned the cheeky breakthrough hit “Where Have All the Cowboys Gone?,” leads the entire pack with a whopping seven nominations, among them for record, song and album of the year, and best new artist.

While visiting New York recently, Colvin stopped at her manager’s office to chat about awards, music, sex and the future. Cole joined the conversation via speaker phone from L.A. Badu, who was on tour in Japan, called the following week and put in her two cents’ worth.

Question: Each of you stands to win a number of Grammys this year. What does that mean to you as artists--and what can it mean in career terms?

Cole: Well, some of my favorite music was never even nominated for awards. But being nominated myself makes me feel so acknowledged. It’s like I’ve been this dark horse for years, and suddenly I’ve been given this wonderful gift. I feel really humbled by it. . . . And it’s already making people take more notice of me--my record sales have gone up.

Badu: I never used to pay attention to who won Grammys, because I was gonna like the music that I liked regardless. But now that I’m in the arena, I see things a little differently, and I don’t take the honor for granted.

Colvin: Winning a Grammy could be a big deal for someone like me, commercially speaking. Our goal was to sell a million copies of my current record, and a Grammy can help push you to that goal. It’s true that you have to take awards shows with a grain of salt, and that some people are always forgotten. But I’ll take it!

Q: Shawn, you won a Grammy once before. Tell us about that.

Colvin: Oh, it was the best! I won the first time I was nominated, in 1990, for best contemporary folk album. I took my best friend, and I was just laughing the whole time! I still have a tape of all the phone messages I got that night--from all my relatives, my therapist, people from my hometown. It was a totally Cinderella-esque experience. But you know, it didn’t change my career substantially. The album had already been out for a while, and so there was no place for radio to go with it.

Q: Obviously, you were all music fans before you were Grammy nominees. Do you have any special memories of watching the awards show on television?

Colvin: I’m a sucker for all awards shows. I watch the Grammys, the Academy Awards, the Golden Globes. . . . Even the Super Bowl makes me cry! It’s fun to see people win, you know? And there have been some great performances on the Grammys. I remember watching Whitney Houston just a few years ago; she was in a white dress, singing until her veins popped out of her neck. I just bawled my eyes out.

Badu: When I was young, I watched all the shows too. But again, it never really mattered to me who won.

Cole: I didn’t really watch TV while growing up. [Laughs.] All we had was this crappy black-and-white set.

Q: In recent years, the Grammy nomination process has changed a bit--there’s been an apparent effort to acknowledge the artists who get a lot of critical acclaim and respect within the music industry as well as the big commercial stars. Do you think this shift has benefited folks like yourselves or helped give the Grammys more credibility?

Colvin: I like to think it’s helped make someone like me more credible. I do think the Grammys have grown, become more broad-minded. . . .

Badu: I would really hope that any awards show would put art first. I like to think I represent unheard artists. When I get recognized, it lets other artists who aren’t in this for the money know that we are respected, that we all have a chance of being appreciated.

Q: A lot of this year’s top Grammy nominees, yourselves included, are women. Let’s talk for a moment about all the women-in-rock hype over the past year or so. Is it an industry- and/or media-generated phenomenon, or is the public naturally becoming more receptive to female artists?

Colvin: My own take on the situation is that there are a lot of women my age and younger than me who have grown up with very solid female role models, and there was gonna be this point of critical mass where you had a lot of women making strong music and strong art because they felt allowed to.

Cole: Certainly, Lilith Fair was catalytic to the media claiming it was the year of the woman. . . . Before Lilith Fair, Sarah McLachlan had wanted me to open concert dates for her, and promoters and male executives at her label thought that a two-woman bill wouldn’t sell. But she persisted, thankfully, and that was the impetus for Lilith Fair.

Colvin: Sarah found this hole in the marketplace, and she proved something. And then at some point, radio followed.

Cole: That’s definitely been one of the greatest changes, in radio. Radio used to be reluctant to play women back to back. I mean, we make up more than half of the population, and it’s nice that radio is finally reflecting that. It makes sense that a woman listener would want to hear another woman’s point of view.

Colvin: Right. It just so happens we have something in common, you know? [Laughs.]

Q: Do you think that being women still makes a difference in how you’re perceived or treated as public figures?

Badu: I didn’t think of this until just now, but the most condescending articles about me have been written by men. ‘Cause they can’t relate to me, or see the truth in what I’m doing, the way that women can. [Men] sometimes think I’m using a gimmick, or that I’m angry. I’m just telling you what I know, from my experience, which is a woman’s experience.

Cole: It’s funny, but at the Grammys this year they want us [female nominees] to all perform in a medley, and I can’t help but feel like we’re being lumped in together and put in the back of the bus one more time.

Colvin: It reminds me of a beauty pageant. You know what I think we should do, Paula? Aren’t you from Massachusetts? You should wear a banner that says “Miss Massachusetts.” Then I can wear one that says “Miss South Dakota,” and Sheryl [Crow] can wear one that says “Miss Missouri.”

Q: Your fellow nominee Fiona Apple suggested in an interview recently that female musicians are still much more likely to be defined by their sexuality. True?

Cole: When I put out my first album [1994’s “Harbinger”], I was really defensive about my sexuality. I wanted to be taken seriously for my art, and to be sort of androgynous. Then at some point, in my late 20s, I realized that I was denying myself something that is actually quite wonderful about a woman’s sexual power. I refuse to feel victimized by it anymore; I feel empowered by it now.

Colvin: What I find tedious, though not surprising, is that the media tends to focus on my age--which wouldn’t be such an issue, I think, if I were a guy. Having started playing music professionally when I was 18, I never imagined being considered “older.” It makes me feel like I must be less attractive--like, my bare arms are more ugly and wrinkly than a 21-year-old’s. I think, ‘What is 42 supposed to look like?’ I mean, I’m not an old wreck!

Q: Surely you’ve all been influenced as artists by other women and men. Who are some of your role models?

Badu: Chaka Khan and Stevie Wonder are the two artists that I most admire and love. My mother had very good taste in music, and she passed that taste on to me. I listened to Chaka and Stevie from the womb, so I understand where they’re coming from.

Colvin: Joni Mitchell was probably most important to me. I got into her when I was 14, and it was just all there for me. She’s playing guitar, and she’s writing and producing the songs, and she’s painting the album covers. . . . I also loved Laura Nyro, and Bonnie Raitt was really important to me, and James Taylor . . . and Paul Simon, certainly. I love how he can write about getting old, and it’s still cool.

Cole: Tina Turner inspires me--her longevity, how she’s remained positive in the face of adversity. [Mahatma] Gandhi inspired me. And Bob Marley. These are people whose spirituality has enabled them to achieve great things. I feel a life isn’t worth living unless it benefits other lives. Music can be a good vehicle for that, especially if you combine it with social issues, which is what I want to do.

Q: What new music have you been listening to? Are there any artists out there right now who you think aren’t getting the attention they deserve?

Badu: There’s this hip-hop group called the Roots. They’ve all studied music. Their rapping is impeccable, their stage show is phenomenal. They work real hard, but it seems they’ve been overlooked.

Colvin: On my last tour, I listened to Paula and Sheryl [Crow]. Lately, I like Steve Earle, and this woman Patty Griffin, who I took on tour. And I’m a big Crowded House fan. There’s a lot of vulnerability in [Crowded House frontman] Neil Finn’s writing, yet it’s never struck me as touchy-feely. He can empathize with women in a way I’ve never quite heard from a male singer-songwriter.

Cole: That’s a good point about male songwriters. I wish they’d open themselves up a bit more, that society would evolve and allow them to be more gentle. . . . I loved Kurt Cobain and Jeff Buckley, and there’s Colin Devlin [lead singer of the Devlins] who is the star in the making. I’ve also always been drawn to black music--first Aretha Franklin, then Miles Davis, and now hip-hop, because that’s what’s socially relevant. I love Lil’ Kim--her feel is wonderful, and in some ways it reminds me of 2Pac. I also really like KRS-One, who stands for a lot of positive things. And I tend to listen to musicians from other countries and cultures--Baaba Maal, Ali Farka Toure, Bob Marley.

Q: There’s been a lot of speculation that in today’s mass-media age, it’s becoming more difficult for any musical act to maintain superstar status. Has the industry grown more fickle than it used to be?

Colvin: I think it’s true that fame has grown more fickle--and less desirable, on a certain level. I mean, in the ‘70s, you always bought your favorite artist’s next album--and each album didn’t have to sell 5 million copies, you know? I think that with the advent of music videos, fame and celebrity and art all blended together, and now your image is everything. I’m not Madonna, you know? Marketing isn’t my forte. I wish I were good at it, but I’m not.

Cole: Fame’s a very complex issue. I think that to have career longevity, one must have humility. One must be willing to tour, to remain connected to one’s fans. If you have an immensely successful record, it’s good to sort of disappear for a while, so you can create a demand again. I think record companies can get a little greedy, and try to push the hell out of a record, and the public gets burned out from all that hype.

Badu: If you want a long career, and you want to be respected as an artist, you can’t just take everything at once. You have to pick your career moves like fruit; you don’t want to do anything that’s gonna put you on top for a minute and then sour later.

Q: So how would you lay out your agenda if, or when, you run your own record company?

Badu: I would challenge people to give art a chance, to go beyond the limits that radio programmers set, to just sing what they feel and be as different as they want to be. That’s what my label is gonna be about, hopefully.

Cole: I would like for my label to be small and eclectic. A lot of labels sign too many artists, then throw them all at the wall and see which ones stick to radio. I’d sign a handful of acts I believe in, and really support them. . . . I’d try to break down racial barriers, too. Rather than having a [separate] black music division, I would allow that music to wash over into pop and rock.

Q: One last question: Where is music going in the next millennium? In 10 words or less.

Cole: I hope to see more creative male songwriters. And I hope to see more real musicians, who can make sounds that are interesting--not just songs or lyrics, but sounds. Like what Bjork is doing. And I think there should be more borrowing from other cultures, because the world is becoming increasingly small.

Badu: I think music is becoming real again. The music industry wants to sell units, but the artist’s agenda should be art. With the right balance between the two, we can keep it real.

Colvin: I don’t really know where music is going, specifically. But somehow, people keep finding new ways to tell a story. That’s what I love about music: People keep finding ways of doing something different.